Suicide bombers

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by RabidIBM, Jan 16, 2021.

  1. RabidIBM

    I am able to do something that just feels unfair. We know those moments when a spawn camp is just getting set up. There will be MAX or two cautiously poking out of the spawn room to take stock of the situation while they wait for back up. There is an unfair way to kill them.

    The combination of:
    -Light assault with ambusher jets
    -The restricted "safe" zone around the spawn room.

    In order to prevent players from setting up traps in unfair places explosives instantly detonate in restricted areas, killing whoever tried to deploy them. This however allows me to kill enemy MAXes without the delay time which C-4 is meant to have. Sure, doing this kills me, kills the MAX though. "WITNESS ME!"
  2. Campagne

    Eh. They'd be right next to the spawn room though, so pretty easy to revive them.

    Annoying for the MAX but not much of a real loss at best anyway.
    • Up x 1
  3. Liewec123

    i don't see why not!
    also they should add a similar thing when people put tank mines at vehicle spawns
  4. brutes359

    I do believe this is merely another extension of the "Light Assault is broken in all aspects" complaint category and has been around since the game first came out. It will likely also continue being a complaint (In its various different wordings and forms) until it is removed from light assaults completely....which will be never because the devs are too busy designing the next sets of bundle exclusive cosmetics and NS ops exclusive garbage to give a moments care about balance or even player complaints.

    Perhaps this wouldn't be a problem if the ordinance armor actually WORKED instead of magically turning off whenever the C-4 lands within 5 feet of the MAX suit itself (a pretty simple feet considering the devs ever generous removal of MAX sprint). But that ship sailed long ago when they devs went on their nerfing crusade against all MAX-kind.
  5. Johannes Kaiser

    There is such a zone. It just does not extend very far, so the initial inertia from spawning will carry you into places where mines can safely be placed, rendering the no-mines-zone pretty moot.
    • Up x 3
  6. JustGotSuspended

    Plz no, this helped me aurax my tank mines. Since everyone uses minesweeper, I had to get creative and run up to spawnroom clusters to drop my present, and get a few kills (sometimes I'd even survive)!

    It's actually quite difficult because if you look the wrong way (especially when using ambushers or dropping from above) the explosive will instantly detonate in your face and kill...just you. That's why you need to look down as you throw your explosive, and wait until you're literally on top of someone to drop it. Overall it's a nuisance at best, I've rarely seen anyone do this, because it kills your kdr. Besides approaching the spawn room is dangerous, because its a spawn room lol. And besides, those guys that do die can easily and quickly get revived, or respawn in the same spot. Not much use.

    If it's really an issue for you, use the symbiote + flak armor combo, or just shoot at these dudes from inside the spawn.
    • Up x 1
  7. Liewec123

    yep its pretty much just on the pad, and then your vehicle auto drives forwards for 2 miles XD
    • Up x 3
  8. Demigan

    Simply removing C4 has never been a good solution. Its the old-dev mentality: if it is complained about, nerf it to hell or outright remove it.

    You always need to consider the impact your change has on all players and not just on one single unit or situation.

    1: MAX's should easily be revived in this scenario.

    2: A Light Assault would need to reveal himself to fire in order to check if the MAX is a viable target.

    3: Instead of outright removing C4 you could change it instead. C4 is powerful due to it's jack-of-all-trades capabilities and lack of alternatives. Just splitting C4 into an AI and AV variant would help as players wont always have the right C4 with them. You can further increase the amount of choice by adding different detonation modes (remote, on-contact, detonated by small-arms etc), by adding different deploy modes (short throw, grenade throw, deployed, sticky/non-sticky), by adding various costs and various strengths of the explosive size.

    4: add alternative utility-slot weapons that players can choose instead of C4, so they have those equipped. Make some class-specific. That also allows you to reduce the amount of C4 some infantry can carry (or the type of C4).
    You can introduce two variants: costs resources upon use (like grenades and C4), costs resources upon buying it (like MAX's and vehicles). The first variant has its risk in not dealing enough damage to deal with the enemy and then needing to spend more nanites for the second try. The second variant gives you the ability to re-arm at ammo packs but if you respawn you lose it.

    Some examples:

    - a small grenade-like C4 designed against infantry and light armor (aircraft, Flash, Harasser). Low cost, sticky, remote detonated, only 1 can be deployed at a time, if you throw a second one it detonates the previous one.

    - a high-cost, short-range C4 designed against vehicles. Sticky, detonates after a timer goes off (allowing it to "warm up"). Once it goes off it deals damage over time. Can be disarmed by dealing damage to it (small-arms, explosives etc).

    - a low-cost short-range C4 designed with moderate damage against both infantry and tanks. Non-sticky, rolls a little bit upon deploying, can only be detonated by shooting it.

    - a deployable shield available to Engineers and Medics. Larger and healthier than the current version, it offers protection for vehicles as well. Does not block infantry and vehicles from moving through it.

    - a deployable distortion-field generator, think of the distortion the Sunderer stealth field creates. Difference is that at close range the distortion is minimal and longer ranges increase that distortion effect, forcing enemies closer if they want a good shot.

    - a rocketlauncher with little drop and high damage. Allowing for accurate fire but a risk your enemy escapes and repairs up in the meantime.

    - an acidic glue-gun. Works like a Thumper, slows down infantry and tanks hit by it or walking through it (more slowed movement upon direct hit). Deals a small DOT but is cumulative with more direct hits. The effect stays on the target/ground for a short while until it burns away.

    - a Medic-only Router variant. 200 resources, 1 use, spawn time similar to Sunderers, only players within 300m range (a bit more than a single HEX) or within the same base region can spawn there.
  9. Demigan

    The mine-detonation area on vehicle pads was added to stop people mining the pad and getting free kills when someone spawned. But they allowed the mines to still be placed inside the auto-drive area, which defeated the entire purpose but the devs old and new never fixed it.

    I've proposed before to allow players the ability to stop the auto-drive and take control, either shooting the mines or driving off in a different direction. The funny thing? Its the vehicle players who object, with the most childish objections imagineable. Why? Because its the vehicle players who use AT mines the most and score cheap kills that way.

    Their objections? "Oh my what if someone forgets to drive off, for example if they were AFK because they were in a queue waiting to spawn? You'll spawn and die when the next player spawns his vehicle!".
    Well since you are AFK you can't interrupt the auto-drive function. Those who object because "someone might accidentally stay on the pad and be killed because of that! Oh noes!" Are similarily childish as that will happen once at maximum before the player has learned that particular lesson, while right now when its busy I still get killed because the traffic jam doesnt allow my vehicle out of the auto-drive even though there's plenty of room to go around.

    The only disadvantage of being able to interrupt the auto-drive feature is that auraxing cheap AT mines becomes harder, which isnt a disadvantage at all.
    • Up x 1
  10. RabidIBM

    I love all the negative assumptions that came out, they're quite revealing. Anyways...

    Brutes359: No, I'm not saying "Light assault OP", I'm saying that one piece of equipment can be used in a way which it clearly was not intended for, it's a dick move, something should be done to stop it. It's not even a light assault specific piece of equipment, this cheese happens to be easiest with light assault.

    JustGotSuspended: I don't care that this is how you auraxed tank mines, it is clearly something unintended which allows players to cheese unearned kills. Also, I'm not saying that it's an issue because it's been done to me, I'm bringing up something that I can do and have been doing, but it's cheesy so it really should be gotten rid of. I know that in the gaming world it's rare for people to call out something which is benefiting them rather than "It's not OP, I should be allowed to crutch on the OP thing that isn't OP because I'm just goooooooood!"

    Demigan: Unless I missed it, nobody here is saying "get rid of C-4" That said, I do think it should be looked at to need to be actually placed instead of thrown. Seriously, if I am capable of throwing a bomb, then remotely detonating it, why would I stop at a light, under handed toss? Why WOULDN'T I whip that sucker at my opponent's head like a brick from across the road, then push the death button? I do think the thing should have to be placed, not thrown.
    • Up x 1
  11. JustGotSuspended

    you're the first person (in *+ YEARS) i've ever heard complain about this.

    I'll let you try to figure out what that means
  12. Demigan

    Brute is. And most players who complain about C4 will instantly want it removed. You did not specify what you wanted to be done about this so I took the logical step and assumed you wanted it removed like 99% of the players who complain about it.

    Simply forcing players to place current C4 isn't an option. It would make placement on vehicles nigh impossible as hit registration and movement would deny almost any attempt. Just try to place a Dildar in a busy room for an example how that could go. It's too big a nerf.
    Also you are trying to use logic in a game. Why use an underhanded throw? Well they could just change the animation to an overhand throw by using the grenade-throw animation. Would that change anything to the mechanics of the C4 throw? No ofcourse not! Yet you still act like the option to throw farther is there if you were to use an overhand throw animation.

    I specifically suggested a variety of C4 types for this purpose. If you need to actually physically deploy a block of explosives as expensive as current C4, it needs to be a bigboom. But you can play with the amount of damage and mechanical properties of C4. Why not add a cheap C4 that needs to be detonated by small-arms? It's more of a trap you place to soften up some enemies. How about a type of C4 that's more a low-yield utility-grenade, which you throw like a grenade in the hopes of sticking it near enemies before detonating? You can also add an explode-on-contact grenade out of it. You need to specifically switch to it so it's not like you don't sacrifice anything for it and balanced properly it won't be doing a OHK but will either finish off enemies or soften them up before you go in for the kill.

    Even just splitting C4 into one AV and AI variant and keeping all other mechanics the same would be fine. There's no need to completely nuke any possibility for C4 to be effective aside from a trap placed before enemies arrive.
  13. Exileant

    :D I am shocked Dimi, did not back you on this.... But no, it is plenty fair. Every MAX but a Defector has a real defense against C4, so it is rare you are going to kill a pro with them in your first run which makes it fair for everyone but N.S.O. because you should have killed them by the time they come try to drop that second brick. o_O As Dimi said, dying right next to the point is no big whoop, if you have a medic in range. I have seen people inch their way back into a spawn room a regular suit. It took them 15 deaths, but they did it. It is far easier in a Max. ;) To me, if you want to ruin your ratio by killing yourself to take out one max, Be my guest. So long as I am able to get some damage in on you so it is classified as a trade for us, and I get to kill your buddies upon reviving. You are the one losing Nanites, not me. :eek: Eventually you will not be able to C4 me anymore; and when that happens? o_O For 2 minutes, your glass is grass, and I am going to mow it...