[Suggestion] this game would be objectively more fun for a majority players if tanks were toned down

Or you spawn at another base, walk around them (hope aircraft don't spot you with clearscopes) and hit them from behind. There's some outfits out there that do this. Alternatively you can use the tanks themselves to battle the tanks. Here's how it goes: you get a bunch of Lightnings/MBT's/Harassers or even Flashes and attack them from the side or behind, or even straight up the front! You might be surprised how powerful a small team can be. Just let your squadlead get behind the enemy as infiltrator, drop a beacon and have the squad come down as Heavies, medics and engineers, then blow stuff up. Get one Valkyrie and fly around while your squadmates jump out as LA and c4 stuff. Tanks might be great force multipliers, but they have limits, and they have many places and ways they are vulnerable. Every tank might be a force multiplier, but there's 4 infantrymen for each tank around and 4 infantrymen can, even without teamwork, fight back.

what you seem to be saying here is that:

• a little group coordination goes a long way against any particular target or group of targets
• tanks should be the counter for tanks

seems like a pretty sound argument to me. ironic that you argue against this same reasoning when it comes to air because you don't like air.

It's freaking common sense that a tank shell should OHK a tiny ESF. And it is actually quite hard to do so. So why punish the tankers for making the effort to do it when they could shoot at other tanks or infantry? Speaking from an A2G ESF pilot's point of view, I do get annoyed when I get shot down by tank shells, but that means that I'm not doing things right.

Wait, are we bringing in "reality" here? Do you know how vulnerable Tanks are in reality?

Tank OHK (and the Missile was fired above the tank)

Tank One-Strafe-Kills and OHKs

In PS2 we have mild contact with a Tree exploding Hulking Vehicles. We have soldiers taking headshots from Weapons and not dying or being even disoriented by them. We have Inafntry using guns with massive barrels who are able to turn around corners with them like they were wielding tiny barreled Ingrams. We have Infantry that can move in one direction, stop without any inertia, and then move instantly in the other direction. Etc. Etc. When did "reality" ever factor in as a hard rule?

Lightning and Prower Tank shells cannot OHK an ESF, why should Vanguard be able to? Why should the Titan-150 AP be a top killer of every Vehicle in the game?

It is not hard to kill an ESF with the Titan-150 AP. It is the 7th highest ESF killer the NC has.
1. M20 Mustang
2. Vortek Rotary
3. NC NS-10 Burster
4. NC Skyguard
5. NC Aspis Phalanx Turret (Anti-Aircraft)
6. Hawk GD-68
7. Titan-150 AP

If it was hard to kill an ESF with the Titan-150 AP, then we wouldn't see it getting kills and we wouldn't see players bothering with shooting at ESFs.

You want something hard to kill an ESF with, there are TONS more Weapons that actually perform badly at killing ESFs. Try killing ESFs with those Weapons, that's hard.

No, it means you're fighting the NC.

Death does not mean you were doing anything wrong. Death is a natural occurrence when you take the risks to do the task at hand. If you play not to die, then you are not really playing for your Faction, you are playing for yourself.

How did you type this without vomiting in your mouth a little.

Everybody just want's to survive. I know that I will be dead in every A2G run (I don't fly the Mozzie good, you see). This game is about balance, you see, and therefore, dumbfire rockets never travel straight and A2G rockets are nerfed as hell. If you want to see a single ESF or a random infantry with AV weapons the piercing ability of a Kornet or Javelin OHK a tank with a single guided missile (personally I wouldn't mind the game to be more brutal but that's not the point), then let the tanks be as brutal as they are supposed to be (have you seen how a real life HE round "farms" infantry?). If you want to see ESFs being able to rip tanks into shreds, then let infantry lock ons have a longer range. The problem with this is that tanks are already toned down in the sense that it does not have so much firepower when you compare in real life.

Why shouldn't a Prowler OHK an ESF? Because it gets to fire twice before reloading and the Titan gun is 150mm as compared to the Prowler's 120mm. NC players who get ESF kills with a Titan simply means they are lucky, or they are skilled in anticipating where the ESF would go (estimate the speed and distance) or the pilot is simply too n00b. I use the Prowler to take shots at incoming ESFs and I rarely ever get a hit, even though I get to fire twice as fast as the NC counterparts.

When you make an argument about how a tank round shouldn't OHK an ESF, it simply means that you are not flying well. Or at least not flying fast and high enough.

Welcome to My Teammates are Idiots Simulator 2012: Extended Zerg Edition. I can't tell if you have never heard of C4 or if you haven't bothered to unlock it yet. If you haven't, do it for LA. Best certs I ever spent.

Ah yes, I am so afraid of a gun with a 1m death zone. So scary! /s

Just unlock C4. Might as well grab the MANA AV turret since its pretty good as well.

Yes, my double wire guided decimators on wing mounts that also comes with a free nosegun that happens to be mounted on the fastest vehicle in the game is "underpowered." How could you possibly be bad with Hornets? They are piss easy to use and unjustifiably powerful. 2HK MAXes, OHK Infantry, Brings Lightnings to 40% health with rear hits, can easily kill tanks etc. Surely you must be joking to say that Hornets are underpowered.

What kinda **** pilot are you. The Walker and Ranger are piss awful. How did you manage to get yourself killed at their hands?

It seems that many people are missing the point. Tanks need to be refocused to be anti tank and take more damage from air, just like in real life.

In real life, they are also anti infantry (how many people die when a HE round screams peek-a-boo into a room full of people). Personally, I wouldn't mind that, but would you or that "90% player base" want that?

We would want tanks properly balanced to take appropriate damage from air and have their AA abilities toned back a bit.

But their AA ability is already pretty realistic, although a bit under powered in regards to damage.

I think it goes a bit far. TBH i think hornets need to be faster or do a reasonable amount of damage for how long they take.

I'll agree with the "take appropriate damage" part to some extent, but how does a tank (with exception of Skyguard) have any AA abilities in this game?

Lets look at the magrider. It can mag burn away from hornets because they are slow. Take away mag burn and then make it so tanks cant point their cannons above the horizon.

The Magrider is already paper enough, without the AB, it would just be a walking free certs. You have the laser guidance mechanic for a reason (though I've never really learnt how to use it).

No, you learn how not to fly into the kill angle (I invented this phrase) of any tank.

I disagree. The magrider overperforms in all of its roles, its the magburn that needs to change. I think 90 percent of the playerbase feels this way.

No, tanks are not the sole counter to tanks. In fact, I name the Valkyrie along the way but could just as easily have mentioned Liberators and ESF as well, and I name some non-tanks as well (Sunderers, Flashes, Harassers), and I name some infantry tactics, but they are just much simpler against tanks and usually more mixed.

And there's part of the problem. Sunderers, Flashes, Harassers, MBT's, Lightnings, infantry groups, Liberators, ESF's, Valkyrie's... they all work against both infantry and tanks. Even with an HE loadout an MBT can attack tanks, he's got very low chance to win, but he can. Infantry is a free unit that's always available, except for the MAX. That's one of the reasons why they shouldn't have too much power and solo things that do cost resources. But they can equip C4, mines and ton of rocketlaunchers to deal with vehicles, with C4 and mines you can even OHK them, making infantry a real and dangerous threat to ground vehicles. But just about any ground vehicle, from a flash to MBT's and Sunderers, is dangerous to infantry. With most loadouts you can deal at least low damage to tanks up to being a real tank killer. But to be AA you need to be specialized, lose your anti-infantry capabilities due to high elevation, large COF's and/or lowered damage to infantry. Lose your anti-tank capabilities due to the same restrictions against tanks. There's a very small amount of actual AA in the game, while even an HE tank can take on another tank with enough skill and luck.

And that's just part of what I've been saying, but you try to be witty while ignoring the fact that i just did name other counters to tanks.

I think we are missing the point. All tanks are over performing by a large degree. But we should start with the magrider and its unique anti hornet strafing abilities.

I admire your effort Will, but I don't think it's possible fleeching 90% of the Magrider when you afterburn.

no, they are not overperforming. You pay resources for them, they should have more power than infantry.
And ahw, so sweet, a Magrider is good against one aerial weapon, now it needs nerfs! The Magrider has the lowest straight-up tank killing power of the MBT's and the lowest MBT armor. It still has a good score in other vehicle kills and infantry kills so there's a balance there. That doesn't mean that you should nerf it just because it can dodge one Hornet weapon that has 50 to 70% more DPS than the Titan AP, while the ESF pilot can equip a nosecannon at the same time.

But I would like to hear from you the exact details of why tanks are overperforming. "overperforming" has a large subjectiveness to it. I never heard anyone claim that the Redeemer in Unreal was overperforming, even though it's a guided missile with great guiding abilities, it's got an AOE 50 times the size of the next biggest AOE and it can basically OHK everything in a large part of that AOE. There's reasons for this, such as availability, the fact that both teams can get it with almost equal chances in most maps, counters and weaknesses (shooting the missile, shooting the user, slow missile speed), these reasons mean that there's a balance there.

Now look at Planetside 2 vehicles. They cost a good portion of resources, and when the resource system is overhauled again it will make vehicles cost much higher so changing the vehicles now even though there's another system that will make them more balanced on the way is a bit... overkill and will overnerf it. Aside from that, they also have limited access to bases, have high speed but low maneuverability, are much more confined by terrain than infantry (or aircraft), have limited resupply area's and often need multiple people to operate.
Now your turn, why are tanks OP?