[Suggestion] So Let's Talk About ZOE...

Discussion in 'MAX' started by Vynu, Feb 4, 2019.

  1. Vynu

    I would like to make a suggestion that I think would make the VS MAX's ZOE more usable, rather than functioning essentially as a button that says to enemies "Hey, I'm over here! Grab your weakest sidearm and get these glowy free certs!" as it stands currently. My suggestion:

    1. Reduce the 'damage taken' while ZOE is active from 20% to 15% (and keep the 10% damage increase as-is). Max AI weapons gain a toned-down lasher-type effect with miniature AOEs that deal 50 damage before 1m and 20 damage after 3m. This small addition would benefit a ZOE MAX"s room-clearing capability slightly, but still to a degree that is respectable. Max AV weapons could get a small boost in their splash radius size, allowing them to be used slightly more effectively against infantry clusters, if the need should arise. And lastly, for the AA category of weapons, they could see a moderate 20% boost to projectile speed, allowing for increased tracking capability of aerial targets at longer ranges.
    I'd appreciate any feedback that anyone has on this topic. Do you think ZOE needs a little push towards viability? Do you agree or disagree with my suggestion, or what would you like to see instead?
    p.s. I actually can't recall seeing a ZOE max in about 1k hours of gameplay. I think people may have forgotten that that MAX ability even exists.
  2. Armcross

    Yey! Zelot Over Drive discussion again.
  3. Vynu

    Considering the state that it is in, I think a discussion is warranted.
  4. Liewec123

    i would say yes, ZoE needs a buff because it sucks, but apparently i only play NC max. (according to certain folks here) ;)

    i suggested a loooong time ago that ZoE should give you a heat bar when you activate it,
    and the more you fire the more the bar fills, the higher the heat level the more damage and speed you get,
    but overheating would cause the opposite effect for several seconds (move slower and deal less damage) and ZoE would end.
    i'd remove all of that "extra damage taken" nonsense!
    • Up x 1
  5. Demigan

    Upgrading the ZOE to something useful is fine, but you've inadvertendly proposed something that could blow the old ZOE out of the water, so strong is it.

    50 splash damage per shot doesnt seem like a lot to you but it's 30 to 35% extra damage per shot for all VS weapons. The TR have to sacrifice their mobility and half their turn radius to have such advantages. On top of that it's a splash damage and with larger projectiles so they have a more consistent DPS and accuracy at any range.

    Perhaps just remove the added damage and keep it at temporary Unstable Ammo?
    • Up x 1
  6. Vynu

    I agree. The proposal of 50 splash damage was too steep, a 35% DPS increase to MAX AI weapons definitely wouldn't be balanced, so thanks for pointing that out. The numbers in my initial proposition are flexible to adjustments, so I'd like to retouch on the splash damage values a bit: perhaps instead of doing 50 splash damage before 1m and 20 after 3m, it could do 25 before 1m and 10 after 3m. That would amount to about a 15-17% DPS increase for MAX AI weapons (25 is 17.4% of 143, and 25 is 14.9% of 167). To accommodate for the damage boon of the added splash damage, the effect of "10% increase to maximum damage output" could be removed entirely, and ZOE could instead be used primarily for the utility it would provide in the suggestions I've made above.
  7. Vynu


    Ah, I remember reading about your idea in that thread, and I think that your suggestion for a heat mechanic with a tiered damage boost with a movement and damage penalty as a potential downside would be very interesting. Bringing the heat levels to the higher-tiers for more damage, but with each tier having a smaller window before the eventual overheat would incentivize players to "balance" their heat levels (weapon firing) for a significant boost, but while paying close attention not to overheat their weapons (by over-firing). Overall, it's a creative idea that is fully appropriate in the context of it being an "overdrive engine". I'd love to see what such a rework would look like in-game.
    • Up x 1
  8. Crayv

    As it stands currently all 3 of the faction MAX abilities have a downside: TR give up the ability to move, NC give up the ability to shoot, and VS lose their effective health pool. So I think ZOE is always going to continue with that theme.

    The problem with it is that ZOE seems to trade off one major downside and to have it divided by two upsides, one of which can somewhat negate it's downside (in its current state not enough to really matter). The release version had so much mobility that it more than made up for the decrease in effective health. This made using the release version basically a direct power up when used (get hit less and kill faster).

    Now it is in a bit of an identity crisis where there is no real situation where you would use it. Can't use the mobility to evade, the extra damage taken isn't worth it. Can't use the increase in damage part in a firefight because the extra damage means you will lose on that trade off.

    I say change the benefits into one area so it is powerful enough to actually matter. For example decrease CoF and reduce damage falloff. Now it extends the MAXes range but at a trade off. So now it has a clear situation to use it and where not to use it.

    Also MAXes are deceptively squishy so increasing the damage taken is a really bad downside.
  9. Zpoc

    Yeah, at least the other 2 factions specific abilities are situational, ZOE is just never the right call, ever.
  10. Armcross

    Make ZOE MAX float, that would be along with faction trait.

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