[Suggestion] Strove: Pokes Holes in the PPA

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by strove, Sep 14, 2014.

  1. Axehilt

    Any ground-based threats can easily be avoided without fuel tanks. Fuel tanks makes it slightly easier, but definitely aren't required to make things work. Really for either secondary (fuel or coyotes) the whole point is how you're going to deal with non-ground stuff.
  2. a-koo-chee-moya

    1. Not lockons. Not flak. Especially if you were just in hover mode.

    2. Not really, if that were true, I wouldn't run lolpods, would I?
  3. Donaldson Jones

  4. NXR1

    Dont nerf the PPA buff the marauder give it some love if you nerf the PPA then the canister will be superior, canister is rarely used but when it is its ALMOST half as annoying as PPA marauder needs some love canister needs a LITTLE love PPA can jump off a cliff for all i care.
  5. Axehilt

    I assure you, you definitely do not need fuel tanks to avoid ground-based threats.
    • Without fuel tanks, you just have to avoid the mistake of burning fuel on the way into the fight. It's actually fine to be at ~50% fuel, since that's all you really need to accelerate to safety. Often you can come in at a sneaky angle and exit behind cover on your way back out, and the non-fueltank capacity is more than enough to get you to safety. It's up to you to manage risk vs. reward when it comes to hover mode.
    • Composite is 25% flak resist. I'm finally getting around to dabbling in this Stealth/Autorepair stuff people have always praised, but the more experience I get with them, the more I feel like my original hunch was right and Composite is the right choice for A2G loadouts.
    • Flares provide a significant window of near-invulnerability to lock-ons, and you can easily time it so that you're behind cover by the time their next lock would be achieved.
    If we're talking about AI noseguns then yes, the whole point of your secondary is to deal with non-ground threats. Because if you take rocketpods, then the whole point of your primary is how you deal with non-ground threats. Either way you're going to need some form of preparation for dealing with aircraft.
  6. a-koo-chee-moya

    1. Composite doesn't provide resist from lockons

    2. Fire Sprsn is really the way to go. Flares help you dodge lockons, yes, but until someone realizes how good lockon squads are, your 25% heal will help just as much with the few lockons you take as well as be much better for general use. Flares counter one thing, while Fire Sprsn counters many.

    3. Without hover mode, you won't be able to get the 3D mobility needed to dodge dumbfires as well as not crash into the ground. Hover mode is pretty much a must for PPA, and Banshee can only get away with quick runs in Banshee.
  7. Axehilt

    Since flares provide near-immunity to lockons, composite obviously doesn't need to provide any additional help. Instead it helps against flak.

    Fire suppression is alright for A2A loadouts (but even then I find flares are quite often helpful) but slightly worse than flares for A2G work.

    It's not like you're never going into hover mode while engaging ground forces, it's just that you do so as an intelligent decision rather than as something you always automatically do at the start of the fight. Either way, you're easily going to get away from your opponents unless there are about 3 flak sources being used against you.

    Also for context: my Scythe KPH is 34 and yours is 7. (20 vs. 5 VKPH) So entertain the possibility that I might actually know what I'm talking about.
  8. Yeahy

    Considering the range of lock ons is 400 or 500 meters and even then the rocket can travel further. 2 seconds of AB does not help at all. Yes you can dodge them using terrain but without ab, its hard to get low and around a corner without being hit first.
  9. Klondor

    I'm still waiting on the Vulcan turning into a Banshee, once that happens we'll see how the PPA stacks up to a storm of 13mm HE rounds coming from atop a Prolwer or Harasser.
  10. Yeahy

    First off, are you seriously going to play that game?

    1. Stealth is better for an a2g set.
    Flak doesn't see you most of the time. Lock ons take a lot longer to lock on.
    2. Run flares ONLY if you have no ab. With ab and stealth there is no way a lock on will hit you. Granted you're out of the fight longer but survivability goes up.
    3. Fire suppression helps more against flak. With comp and flares you're good though.
    4. Hover mode is must for ppa. "Bombing runs" are not possible.

    Anyways, both your set and his set are perfectly fine for A2G.
  11. a-koo-chee-moya

    I would say the same to you. How do you not know that I'm not a pro flyer's secret alt that just want' to post my opinion without getting flamed on my channel. Probably not, but you can't just say "oh you don't have any hours flying and your stats are crap so your opinion doesn't matter."

    1. Yes, and any intelligent flyer would realize that the 3D movement of an ESF must be abused for survivability.

    2. Flares only protect against one source of G2A damage, while Fire Sprsn protects against dumbfires, lockons to a certain extent, tank rounds, Walker, etc. Not to mention that you could just AB behind cover with AB tanks.
  12. Axehilt

    Literally anyone can accumulate flight time. It's not a stat I care about.

    But only skilled players are going to have high rate stats (KPH, VKPH, SPM, etc) and flight time is merely an indicator of how "noisy" those stats may be (a 150 KPH that's just a 15-killspree over 6 minutes is obviously less reliable an indicator of skill than 150,000 kills over 1,000 hours where you can be sure that's the player's steady-state.)

    I don't know whether or not you're a pro, only you know that. If that's your main, then it's up to you and the Dunning-Kruger effect, where you can either accept the advice of someone ~4x as effective as you or not. Conversely, when I see players with superior stats to mine making comments on balance and tactics, I listen closely and don't argue with them because they've obviously had a healthy amount of objective success: there's no arguing with results.

    If your "abuse" of "3D movement" involves being so vulnerable to flak/lock-ons that you can't survive without fuel tanks, then you're not abusing it hard enough.

    Flares protect against unlimited sources of G2A lockons at once, and during that time you are very likely to kill the player shooting it because you'll let the shot be fired at you so you can see where it's coming from (and therefore kill the flimsy, reloading infantry.) Except of course when the enemy is likely to be directly below you.
  13. Axehilt

    • Flak has no job except to scan for air.
    • Any good flak (flak worth worrying about) is going to spot you with or without stealth. Certainly once you start firing your very lousy weapons they're going to fire at you. Really the minimap icon is the most subtle thing announcing your presence, and pretty irrelevant.
    • Why leave the fight when you can flare after they launch, then kill them where they stand (having taken zero damage)?
    • His argument is that Fuel Tanks were the only way to have enough afterburners -- because he entered hover mode -- in order to evade flak and lock-ons. So keep hover mode comments in that context. Nobody is saying they never hover while engaging ground forces. I'm saying that the default afterburner capacity is more than enough to safely escape danger.
  14. Axehilt

    I don't know what to tell you. I can very easily never get hit by lockons running Flares+Composite and using cover as needed.

    It's not hard. There's a timing to it. If you know the timing, you just never get hit.
  15. Yeahy

    The only way I can outrun locks is with ab. Can you outrun locks with just normal ab and fiares on waiting?
  16. Yeahy

    You don't have to use ab to enter hover mode.
    I'm just saying that stock ab is nowhere near enough to outrun a lock on. Maybe you do some evasive crap but as for heading 45 degrees up, holding space, and mashing afterburner, it just can't be done.
  17. a-koo-chee-moya

    1. So, if I had like 2 days in an ESF, you'd listed to me....... I could've just been dueling noobs on whatever server everyone says the noob flyers are on. Or just farming noobs on biopads. You do know that Daddy will literally log out to save K/D?
    2. Comp armor may protect you against flak and allow you to hang around for just a little longer, but AB will get you out much quicker, avoiding lockons and more flak damage. Also, this frees up the defense slot for Stealth/NAR.
    3. 3D movement allows you to duck lockons, as well as flak, and will protect you against other A2G. It takes more skill and creativity, but it does free up 2 slots.
    4. Fire Sprsn allows you to take that lockon and AB will allow you to kill the HA and get out quicker. You won't be able to kill a squad anyways unless they're all bunched up like idiots.
  18. Axehilt

    1. If your rate stats were higher? Sure. As you accumulate more time, the only thing that happens is your stats become more reliable at showing you're at exactly the skill level your rate stats show. So playtime is purely about how reliable the stats are, not how skilled you actually are. (Keep in mind K/D isn't a rate stat -- it's a secondary stat below KPH. If you have reasonable KPH but high K/D, that matters. But if you have low KPH but high K/D that's typically just ultra-cautious play and actually a lot less helpful to your faction than more aggressive play.) (I imagine Daddy is reasonably skilled, despite the insane fixation on K/D. The normal K/D he would achieve without the stupid tricks is what matters -- all the bloat that result from logging out of LA-jetpacking away isn't really an indication of skill.)

    Put another way: if someone has 2 KPH and 100 SPM but 999,999 hours in an ESF, are you seriously going to listen to them just because they have a lot of playtime? The playtime has done nothing but prove to you beyond a doubt that 2 KPH and 100 SPM is their steady-state.

    2. Stealth/NAR I've found under-perform for A2G duties. I'm holding off final judging til I really get a chance to play with them longer, but so far they're noticeably worse than Composite.

    3. Again, nobody's saying I don't move in 3D space, just that it's laughable to think you can't do this same lockon and flak evasion without fuel tanks. It's really easy to simply cut afterburners a few seconds before you reach the destination (which you often want to do anyway) and have a full tank to get you to the nearest cover when needed.

    4. I can still kill a squad regardless of their spacing because thermals are overpowered. Fire Suppression isn't going to change that, but flares definitely will help because the squad is likely to fire multiple lockons at once and flares protects against all of them. Then I grab cover, come back with a good line on the remaining players, and take them out too.

    5. Keep in mind you haven't shown a character with better flying stats, so you really should strongly consider the possibility that your assumptions are wrong.
  19. Axehilt

    Yes, if you play horribly you can't outrun lockons with stock afterburners.

    I don't even take stealth and I'm able to either avoid the lock-on being fired in the first place or ram it into obstructing terrain. It's just cover and timing.
  20. Axehilt

    If I let them finish the lock at all to fire the shot (40% of the time) then I'm already half a second from ducking behind cover, where the rocket will hit harmlessly. Most of the time I've already unloaded the majority of my weapons and am already ducking away to take my next pass. Or using building cover so that I can rotate around right there at the base while they can't lock on me.