Strikers need to be fixed

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by xMeserionx, Feb 11, 2018.

  1. xMeserionx

    the TR T2 "striker" needs to fixed, nerf is too strong of a word because most of the time it fulfills an important role. It just that sometimes it gets abused in a bad way that ruins the game for everyone else. I'm talking about Striker Valkyries. As you'll see in the video below, we see the abuse of this weapon in full:

    Let me put into perspective here, this something only the TR can do. Infantry do not render in Valks so there is no way for air to know whether a Valk has this loadout or not, meaning the only time you know is after they have launched a volley at your aircraft, or far too late to react. This is just as bad as when we could be a burster MAX in a Valk and wreak havoc in air with no counterplay.

    In their natural state on the ground, Strikers and burster MAXes serve the vital role of zoning aircraft out of an area, their high rate of fire and force multiplier component makes them devastating in groups, but when you put them in Valk they became game-breaking.

    To fix Strikers, I suggest we introduce a movement penalty while firing that basically says, if you're moving either on the ground or in the air, your accuracy suffers massively. Flat out banning Launchers from a Valk will cause more harm than good as their is less "cheesie" uses for launchers when fighting Armor on the ground.
    • Up x 1
  2. FateJH

    If true then I consider it a far worse issue. At least if you see it you can shoot at it and attempt damage upon it.
  3. Eternaloptimist

    I think OP makes a balanced point. IDK the rights or wrongs of it as I have not been in a Striker Valk team, or the target of one. But I'm glad it is a specific proposal rather than the generic "Striker OP plz nerf" thing.

    A part of me thinks the Striker range is much too good but the other part is happy that tanks and Libs can't perch or hover out of range and lob HE at me with impunity when I'm playing TR. I sympathise with the other factions not having an ESRL with equivalent long range.
  4. DrPapaPenguin

    It's exceedingly difficult to hit anything at long range with the Striker, and gives plenty of time for the target to evade the entire volley, even if 1-2 rockets hits them. In the clip the damage was done at practically point blank range.

    As for the Valkystriker squads - it has blind spots which can be taken advantage of. It can't outrun an ESF, you can disengage if you feel threatened and use hit and run. And if you get in so close that you can see the whites of their eyes - sorry, you done goofed.
    • Up x 2
  5. strikearrow

    No harder than hitting anything with a lancer at long range, actually easier against aircraft. Have you ever even hit an ESF at 650m with a lancer? Happens all the time with strikers.
  6. frozen north

    As someone who has used this strategy on a number of occasions, the main issue is that it is limited by the velocity and distance of the striker. Don't get me wrong, this is definitely effective for countering air, but its not without some serious drawbacks.

    Firstly, the effective range with the striker is a lot lower when its being Valkyrie carried. This mostly has to do with the fact that you are having to lead a moving target, while being aboard a moving object yourself.

    Secondly, the striker really is bad against tanks. So while this can definitely deal with air power, it means you are almost entirely reliant on the nose turret alone for anti-armour.

    This is where the big difference lies. True, only the TR have access to this level of AA power with this. On the flip side, the VS version of this boasts both air to ground, and long range AA abilities.

    As for NC... I really am wondering what a phoenix launched from a Valkyrie would be like. I would imagine an insane anti-armour capability.
  7. DrPapaPenguin

    Lancer does the entire damage up front. Striker does it's damage in 6 steps. Sure, I've hit aircraft at long range, problem is I slightly tickled them with one or two rockets while the rest missed because the aircraft made a tiny adjustment to the side. While you can certainly hit something, it is so inconsistent that it is barely a threat.
  8. Prudentia

    well the guy wasn't wrong.
    it is impossible to hit an ESF at 650 with the Lancer cause the projectile only has a 1 second lifetime with 450m/s velocity :p
  9. DrPapaPenguin

    Ok, then let me rephrase my points, because I feel the meaning had been lost.

    1) The OP claims that Strikers on board Valkyries are borderline OP and broken, and they need to have accuracy nerfed.

    My reply was that the kills shown in the video all happened at close range, where the destruction of the ESF was the fault of the pilot flying it, not the OPness of the striker, since they put themselves into a completely avoidable situation. Moreover, the accuracy nerf in this case would solve nothing, since the rockets were launched pretty much into their lock-on zone, so they would have still hit.

    More so - the strikers in the video were fried from hip, which ALREADY has terrible spread, so the nerf would (again) literally do nothing.

    Addressing this point - I mentioned that while Striker does have long range, it is utterly ineffective at that long range, as it relies entirely on the incompetence of the pilot who does not take evasive action, as it is EXTREMELY easy to dodge striker rockets at long ranges.

    3) I never claimed that the Lancer can hit targets at same ranges as Striker, I merely said that when it does hit within its effective range - it does all the damage of the shot. Striker needs consecutive hits to do anything other than tickling the target ,which takes way longer to unload and requires consistent hits.

    4) On a side note which I did not mention - NC have an LMG which can damage armour (GODSAW), and are the only ones to have that. It is also quite crap and only situationally useful in that role. Just like the Striker who can lob rockets at super long ranges, but only very situationally useful at that. Just because a faction has something unique it does not mean that ALL other factions must have the same capabilities, especially if they are very situational.

    TL;DR: The proposed nerfs will not solve the problem described by the OP, instead it will weaken an already situational ability of the weapon that is under no threat of being OP. My solution is better engagement tactics for the pilots attacking the valkyries which will drastically reduce the perceived OPness of the Striker.

    There :p
  10. urch

  11. OldMaster80

    The Striker is cool against aircraft it can hit from long distance but I agree with PapaPenguin: you realistically land 1 or 2 rockets, which means you actually deal very low damage.

    Then let's not forget the Striker is basically useless against everything that is not aircraft. You cannot face ground vehicles, Max Units, moving targets.
    Nerf it against flying objects and what does remain?
  12. Liewec123

    NO! the 3 launchers each have their own thing that they can do that the other factions can't,
    TR and NC can't have a few guys with lancers sit on a cliff 500m from the battle and snipe enemy vehicles, including libs.
    VS and TR can't fire missiles from safety to hit a sunderer parked in cover.

    infact the only changes i'd want for ES RLs is to maybe make the recent phoenix reload bug a feature so it can actually deal decent damage and i'd also revert the lancer range nerf so they can once again snipe whatever they can see.
    • Up x 2
  13. DrPapaPenguin

    It's actually surprisingly not terrible against land armour too, if you can hit all rockets. While its nowhere near as good as a default RL, it can be surprising to the traget how much damage it can deal.

    Though that mostly means Vanguards and Sundies, with an occasional stupid Lightning.
  14. Eternaloptimist

    Yes, long range kills are rare indeed but at least the targets have to break off the action and waste time repositioning. And if they are under other attack too they can be toast
  15. Prudentia

    damn that lancer video makes me nostalgic. 5 Lancers and 2 Engies turrets gibbing tanks. *sigh* we tried that again a few days ago and all we managed to do was kill Harrassers with tankmines who tried to run us over. The damage drop to 350@300m just makes it silly ticklish as a range weapon.
    it used to be a weapon to remove armor zergs, now it's just something you can use to steal kills when your own armor zerg is happening
    The Lancer fires every 6 seconds for 350 damage after 300m
    The NS Masamune fires every 4-8 (4 second reload, 4 second tracking at max range of 450m) seconds for 740 damage
    so sadly every empire has access to a launcher that allows you to sit on a cliff and shoot at vehicles.
  16. strikearrow

    Wait you've hit flying ESFs at 650m with a lancer? Goodness that's very hard to do. Still Strikers do it consistently and the reload is so short that an ESF cannot engage ground or air targets long enough to kill anything with a Striker heavy shooting - even at 650m because that ESF will die - if it doesn't leave the area. No other faction has a launcher that is very nearly as good as a skyguard or ranger at denying air at long range. The lancer is just as good at G2G, but it is not even in the same universe as the skyguard G2A - neither is the phoenix really.
    • Up x 1
  17. Halkesh

    You can't do that anymore since dev put a hardcap at 450m to the lancer (and made it useless by reducing its damage from 150m to 300m).
    Before the update, hen lancer had 799m range, yes I'd probably hit ESF at that range.
    • Up x 1
  18. strikearrow

    So the Striker gets to lock-on and do damage at 650m+ and no other launcher does? Oh that's rich.
  19. Blam320

    The real problem is the range at which Strikers can actually lock onto vehicles and deal damage. I've had multiple instances where barely visible Striker heavies are still capable of locking onto and dealing significant damage to tanks and aircraft alike. No other lock-on launcher has the range of the Striker.
  20. Skraggz

    As a A2G scrub, I also don't like Strikers, they hurt me... alot. Nerf Plz. (Sarcasm)

    On a real Note I can not stand a valk running heavies with strikers, any decent heavy will delete you.