Stopping a TR zerg with one squad - Zerg Control

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by ReNz0r, Dec 28, 2014.


    Idk it doesn't look like they were floating on that rock so banshee would have worked just fine despite the fact that you always want to go for as many direct hits as possible anyways, especially against MAXs and it's absolutely doable.

    And yes I fully agree. Zergs stand no chance against groups of people communicating to perform coordinated strikes but there's nothing wrong about it. It's been like that for over two years. And that is exactly my point and the point in the OPs video. Team up, use the right tools for the situation and quit zerging with strangers otherwise you're likely to become an easy prey for coordinated strikes. People act like the OP is bragging about what they did although in actuality the video is meant to be an educational one, just like the majority of videos Renzor puts out. Others call it "abuse". WTF guys. The same can be/has been done with AV Manas, G2G lock/Annis, Vortex/Lancer, Fractures, Strikers, hell outfits like TE even used to use concentrated small arms fire to obliterate infantry zergs and other soft targets out in the open. The salient point is and always has been coordination. It is absurd to expect to have direct counters to that for the individual player.
  2. Thornefear

    Outside C4 and mines >.>

    I'm not saying TR stuff is specifically underpowered here. I just see a LOT of maggie drivers who are really good at running away. NS stuff, not the most effective at taking out vehicles, unless it's deployables.

    We shove them off, but it's a bit of a pain to land the actual kills, (yes I have lock-ons)

    Also I guess you've never ran into the bug where the game registers a supernova as one-shotting a full armored battle sundy/prowler. It happens quite a bit for some reason.
  3. iller

    NC is herdingcats mode
  4. Alan Kalane

    this is what I said from the beginning.
    A lock-on/raven squad can wipe out an entire army. THIS IS THE ULTIMATE SOLUTION TO THE ZERG PROBLEM.
    My outfit does that too, but usually with annihilators so you can attack air targets as well. It's epic, brings a lot of fun and certs.
    Congratz man, your outfit is one of those rare outfits who know how to play this game. Too bad you're on Cobalt though, I'd love to add you to my friend list.
  5. Madrey

    Good video showing teamwork, nice job!
    Gonna keep this short.
    Ravens are not OP, teamwork is esp. against disorganization and a loser (i don't wanna try) attitude.(there are few ways to counter people when they are up there)
    Also A/V turrets, Lancers, and Lock-on Launchers would have been just as effective if not more ttk wise.
  6. task_master

    guess what weapons besides Ravens need a range nerf? it's like no render is ******** or something
  7. AlterEgo

    *Looked at title*
    Snap. These guys must be the best players ever!

    *Sees the blue missiles of freedom*
    Oh. Nevermind.

    But seriously, I like how the narration is done. Really adds to a sense of experience:)
  8. AlterEgo

    I DO!
    I use my Lancer proudly; it's one of the only unique alien weapons in the game.
  9. silver032

    Read this post in depth on a train, and decided to respond. Hope i get a response from the OP.

    Good tactical play exploiting the high ground to punish an overextended push... Only thing is that position would of been impossible to break without a large air force, not just 3-4 esfs, 2-3 libs, or one gal drop but like all those put together... Which would be difficult because the outfits participating in the zerg (most likely to respond in time) would of had to redeploy from their tanks and into aircraft which would be difficult in terms of nanites and also reduce the strength of the zerg significantly...

    As far as ravens are concerned, speaking from playing all 3 factions, the ravens aren't OP or UP necessarily in terms of balance, they just fill a specific combat niche that is unrivaled by non... Ravens can rain down accurate rockets from long range that wreck vehicles, continuously. This makes the NC long range AV capabilities unmatched by non, making VS/TR long range AV capabilities seem worthless and futile in comparison. The AV accuracy of TR or VS maxes can't even compete in that department and yeah a dozen heavys would lancers could do the trick but lancer hit squads are harder to execute (requires perfect timing of charge, chances are someone will fire to early), are all burst damage, and hampered by long reload times. While the ravens can constantly pump out lazer guided rockets...

    It comes down to terms of counter play... The ravens are the only weapon in my experience that can kill a driver without allowing any counter play... By the time the first rockets start hitting the vehicle, their already is enough rockets in flight to make finding cover or evading impossible. In every other instance of long range AV, there allows time for the driver to respond in some way to save their vehicle
    well thats my 2cents

    but for what the NC gain in ravens, they lack in other departments IMO
  10. ReNz0r

    As you wish Sir here is the response.

    First of all thank you ver much for the attention, its always nice to see people have a good conversation about a topic and it is as much as anyone could ask for. Now to make a statement. People often ask because of the video why i didint do X Y or Z instead of this and the most simple answer is because - at the time this was the most useful strategy to win. I have said this many times and i will say it again. I respect each and every player but and i must stress BUT for me this game is a WAR and in war YOU MUST USE THE BEST OPTION TO GET THE BEST RESULTS and that rly is the end of the story. I never cried about the ppa or the bashie, factions use what they are given and thats all fair. If i had any beef it would be with the devs on the players.

    I make this videos because first and foremost im hoping that this will bring more people into KAIN. My dream is to get about 120 mambers into the outfit so we could run a well organized ( not zerggy) platoon that could rly made a different on the continent. Large scale warfare and continent capping is what gives me pleasure in this game, scratch that and i would rather play bf4.

    As a second point i want these videos to be somewhat educational. The reasoning was, if i show some good caps or fights that i have with my outfit maybe people will be able to see something i missed and say" aha this is why it worked" I have always wanted to pass down my fps knowledge to other people but planetside also allowed me explore the bigger tactics aswell.

    Again thank you v much for the conversation.
  11. Golconda

    And make a video about the formerly most popped faction stomping the formerly least popped faction with a soon-to-be-nerfed weapon and a strategy they have no counter available (which is a reason itself for the population imbalance) calling that superior strategy and complaining if ppl don't share your pride? Sure I get your point.
  12. Alan Kalane

    To all the "Ravens OP" haters:
    Ravens can't attack air targerts and require leading on mobile targets (harrassers rly hard to kill) while annihilator doesn't require any leading and can attack both air and ground targets. Furthermore the only counter to lock-ons is smoke or flares but I rarely see a ground vehicle using smoke so it's basicaly lots of free kills if you can gather enough people to do the job. How many? 8 annihilator missiles can destroy an MBT from the front, so a squad of 8 heavies using annihilators or other G2G lock-ons with an engineer and one or two medics on a hill is capable of instantly destroying an MBT from 300 meters away every ~10 seconds while being completely out of reach for the enemy ground forces and has a solid AA defense.

    This is what I call zerg stomping.
  13. Slamz

    So you've never actually used an Annihilator, have you.

    Are you aware of the limitations of lock-on range? Are you aware that Ravens do not have this range limit? Are you aware that lock-on has counters while guided weapons obviously do not? Are you sure you're even a PS2 player? Because it sounds like you have no idea what you're talking about.

    Also, increasing the font size of your demonstrably wrong opinions does not make them less wrong.
  14. Crayv

    They really do need to give the Fractures it's old velocity back. Used to have a velocity of I think it was 500 m/s (or was it 300 m/s). Anyways, I noticed after the nerf that the rockets just seem to curve right into the ground after about 300 meters. With the new render ranges TR desprately needs a long range AV option that is NOT a lockdown Prowler.

    TR is just a really bad faction. Their abilities and empire specific stuff has poor synergy and/or just doesn't really provide anything over what the other factions have.
  15. Mongychops

    If doing this with lock ons is "better" why did OP's outfit choose to use MAXes instead then, since NC get exactly the same lock on weapons as the other factions?
  16. Crayv

    Even the old "OP" Striker couldn't do that because it was still a lock on... the other factions could do the same as the Striker they just needed a couple more people to pull it off.

    Ravens are great at destroying vehicles like tanks and Sundies (and maybe a bit too good at killing infantry at range as well) but you do have have to lead your shots a bit so hitting things like Harassers can be tricky (it is also why people are not shooting down aircraft with the things).
  17. Mongychops

    Right but I was rhetorically asking did they choose to use a mix of Raven and Burster MAXs, with several support engis and medics rather than a squad of Annihilator HAs with 1x engi and 1x medic.

    There are very good reasons.
  18. Trebb

    Yep, agree with the AI part, and also feel my beloved Engie AV turret (which shares a ton of similarities to Ravens) is way WAY too good at AI. Park one of those on top of a tech plant, and one shot people all over the place, full flak or no. Looks just as easy with Ravens too.

    Looking at the video, when the tanks realize they're getting hit and move in random directions, that would actually save them from pounders+fractures. We can't compensate in air dontchaknow
  19. ReNz0r

    I totally agree but by no means is it my fault or the rest of the nc we use what we get.
  20. zaspacer

    It's really a very bad target for Banshee. Pre or Post nerf.

    I have Auraiumed Banshee on 2 different characters. I have a lot of time with it. People on tops of those giant rocks have always been hard to clear off if they have AA or if the surrounding region has enemy AA. The reason being that you have to get about 30+ degrees above them in order to get them in a good target position with surface for Banshee's splash, and to both get to the height and then visual id + aim lineup on targets and then moving to breaking line-of-sight to escape is a mess. You can't pre-spot their location well before engaging (they're above you), and if you edge up to peek then it really slows your ability to break off quickly. Plus with a dedicated group like that you have Medics (revive), Maxs (hard to kill, kill you), Engineers (heal the Maxs), 2+ Squad Beacons (replace any Medics they need to), and they're all linked up with communication. They can probably call in or spawn ESF to come take you out too if you are a nuisance (a single enemy ESF should beat a Banshee ESF, all the more since they have coordinated AA support: you can break line-of sight with AA on that rock, but it's very hard to duel an ESF there and maintain line-of-sight break from the Rock AA).

    I've tangled with those setups many times. Whether it's that specific Rock, or just a team setting up to grief Air outside the enemy Warpgate. It's VERY effective, and aside from maybe a few sporadic and slow and meaningless kills, it's a death trap for ESFs to engage.

    For me, this speaks mostly to the huge edge SOE gives Squad/Outfit play. Extra great tools, (comparably) great communication, etc. It's an SOE culture thing that they love "private small teams" and they skew the consistently skew their games toward them (I was lectured about this by Bill Fisher while working on an MMO for a spinoff from SOE, and it has been obvious in their culture between at least EQ and PS2). This becomes horrible in PS2, because it derails the Massive Team of the Faction (and its potential), in favor of a playgroup smaller than the Team size you'll see in many regular FPS (I ran with bigger organized Teams in Battlefront 2). I don't think SOE wants to give non-Squads viable communication or assert them as a game focus, but they could still default link the communication of all Squads (regardless of Outfit) together on redundant niche channels (only available to those in Squads), so that players would all be in Squads AND all be linked up in a massive Faction team (or sub teams broken down by location, unit type [Air, Armor, etc.], etc.).

    I appreciate the notion that players can access Smaller Special Squads to accomplish special tasks. That's neat to have in the game. But the game now has Smaller Special Squads that flat out trump Larger Casual Squads without much problem, and doesn't have to do it in a limited niche way or with limited niche results, it just trumps them. I personally prefer the play environment of the early days of PS2, where huge Teams just swarmed out of Sunderers and fought against each other.

    This Vid also speaks to Server Smash very narrow tactics that should be looked into. SOE should adjust the game such that Server Smash (aka optimum organized tactics) isn't just Inafntry and some Air transport/utility. They should rework their game and reward and requirement systems such that Combined Arms makes sense. At this point, it's only casual play or hardcore players messing around that bothers with using Combined Arms.

    Also, AV Mana turrets can't do this anymore. They have a hard time with spawning on downward angles, and they no longer have the range.

    Personally I don't enjoy playing in Smaller Hardcore Organized Squads:
    1) there's no challenge (in most targets)
    2) it's no longer massive scale
    3) you don't interact with your Faction (you just coexist)
    4) there is not as much variety in Combined Arms
    5) I find too many players annoying or overly noisy on Mic

    If the above were not the case, I'd definitely do Squad play MUCH more. For now I stick with hard mode, playing with fewer tools, and having to survive or get things done with the little I have to work with.

    As a Designer, I also can't stand the current tiny Squad focus. It ignores and derails the Massive Team of the Faction, making the game experience smaller than many non-MMO FPSes out there. And it's not what most players want from their game. I would make a system that embraces Squad, Solo, Small Group, and Massive Group play, working around a setup that promotes Massive Group Play and then breaks down into subsections that support the other gameplay. I could do this from a Squad centric setup (everyone joins a Squad, and from there can access Massive Group coordination) if SOE made that a "must", or I could just start with the Massive Group coordination.

    I would love to be able to tinker this game. I'm reluctant to try to talk to anyone at SOE, but maybe I will eventually since I loosely run in the same circles. Most designers are not very flexible or broad based in their thinking. Andrew Krausnick was good, but he wasn't on PS2 and he's gone from SOE anyway. John Hegner is good, but he's not on PS2 nor with SOE anymore. Adam Hetenyi also good, but not on project and gone from SOE. I don't hold out much faith in this area that I'd be able to affect anything.