Stop with the "Remove 0.75 ADS" bull****

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by UberNoob1337101, Aug 27, 2015.

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  1. UberNoob1337101

    It's not a problem. Do you know why it's not a problem? It's because the guns that have them have "Drawbacks" (Jaguar, Bandit and Zenith reload slower and have worse accuracy than standard guns while ADS, NS weapons have bad TTK, Orion/Betelgeuse... the advantage is meaningless, believe it or not, and they're CQC only guns) and the advantage is only viable if you're strafing/peeking corners and if you peak-a-boo around cover a lot.

    And another thing is that 0.75 ADS is bashed for no reason, with most "reasons" being :

    - It's bad for the game. (How?)
    - It causes poor balance. (Even though no evidence of poor balance is shown)
    - It's killing the game. (Games die because they get older)
    - It's OP. (How's it OP?)

    And the funny thing is, not only is no evidence shown, but also no evidence could've been shown.

    What do the 0.75 ADS removal whiners suffer from are these two things :

    - The Confirmation Bias epidemic.
    - The "Mad cuz bad" syndrome.

    So the first one is simple, simply put it, the grass is always greener on the other side and all TR and NC players would wish if their opponents' best equipment just vanished out of existence, preferably nerfed to trash status.

    The "Mad Cuz Bad" syndrome, or just MCB for short, is a syndrome where the person who's beaten in a fight whines relentlessly about what killed him, often whining in the forums that what beaten him is definitely OP and has to be nerfed.

    What if I told you... that it is your fault for losing every single engagement?


    Yes it's true, and one man caller ReNz0r has said this :
    "What I've always tried to pass onto people is to engage your enemies on your own terms. If you're fighting against a HA head-on, you're playing his game. If you're facing a HA head-on, it's like putting your opponent in a best possible scenario. That's where you're losing".

    So let's put it this way : 0.75 ADS doesn't mean jack on Orion/Betelgeuse because most of the people fighting HAs in general never stay behind cover, always walk towards Orion HAs so they are in CQC and try to kill him even though they have an all-rounder or a long-range weapon. Just use common sense and the all powerful Orion won't even bother you.

    For NS guns, the overall slower TTK can doom you. While exploiting every given advantage is a must, you can be out-powered just because your opponent had a better gun, so 0.75 ADS is useful, but not an absolute I-win advantage.

    And I'll admit that the advantage is minimal, the only use is slicing corners, when I first heard that Jaguar and TRAC-Shot had 0.75 ADS... I began scratching my head, because I never noticed it even though I auraxiumed both. It's that small.

    TL : DR, stop complaining about it, the problem isn't 0.75 ADS, the real problem is you blaming everything except yourself and your lack of common sense (because it takes a real genius to mindlessly charge at a Orion HA). Play smart and you'll see that 0.75 doesn't mean much. You're blaming something just because you're too bold to blame yourself.

    But you also have another option, dear bads, and that's to stay proud and bad, continue digging that salt and never stop whining!
    • Up x 16
  2. Scorpion97

    It's weird when a TR dude comes out and say the OTHERWISE ^_-
  3. TheMish

    Well his signature says he doesn't only play TR, like most people. So he's probably pissed that he can't dance around like a fairy with .75.
    • Up x 1
  4. Scorpion97

    Actually he is right,it is not like you get killed everytime from a VS heavy
    And if you looked at the deathboards of any .75 ads complainer,you will get me more clearly
  5. Skiptrace

    - It's bad for the game. (How?) It creates a large advantage for players who use these weapons, even if the weapon itself is bad (e.x Vandal) the 0.75x ADS Movement Coefficient is still a LARGE advantage because of the fact that you move 0.25x faster than everyone else while you are ADS'ing, AND it nullifies the Heavy Assault's Move Speed Reduction when Shielding + ADS, meaning Heavies with 0.75x ADS Movement Coefficient weapons move at 0.5x Move Speed while ADS'ing, which should normally be 0.25x, That's brokenly overpowering for HA.
    - It causes poor balance. (Even though no evidence of poor balance is shown) ^
    - It's killing the game. (Games die because they get older) Eh, I wouldn't say games die because they get older, I mean... Look at Runescape, it's been around for nearly what? 10 years now? I think that's right? There's still millions of subscribers to Runescape, the same could be said for WoW. and the counter to the rest of this argument is ^
    - It's OP. (How's it OP?) ^
    • Up x 1
  6. Stormsinger

    I'd like to take a moment to step back and just marvel at the current state of balance. When the biggest balance issue is that one faction has a weapon that allows them to move fractionally faster, (Not even 10% with a shield on) then other factions... The developers are doing something right.

    It's especially amusing when one considers that a large portion of the toys of the complaining faction in question are blatantly superior to the faction being complained about.
    • Up x 2
  7. Dgross

    Guess what Vanu HA's do 99% of the time? They're ADAD strafing.
    Guess what compounds this issue even more? Latency.
    Well done shooting yourself in the foot.
  8. Scorpion97

    You need to be more specific when you describe .75 ads is OP
  9. Mythologicus

    The irony is common sense is extremely uncommon.
    • Up x 3
  10. Zombo

    If i would be a gal i would want to have your children

    guess what wont effect ADADAD BS being effective? removing 0.75 ADS from guns, the movement speed is unimportant in that scenario, believe it or not, 0.75 ADS is not the reason ADADAD strafing is a bad mechanic, all empires do it
  11. WR3CK

    If it doesn't effect the game why do you care if it is gone.
    • Up x 2
  12. iSpank

    Unnecessary nerfing is pointless, its far from being OP. i personally prefer MSW-R over Orion because of its versatility.
  13. Ronin Oni

    Most people that actually play all factions don't find a whole lot of faction imbalance.

    I would say Fractures are still an issue (need accuracy/CoF buffing) but for the most part the factions are each in a good place (Banshee was also over-nerfed, but that thing was ridic OP as well. The nerf bat comes for us all)

    I'm a lil surprised that DGC put the Orion/BG nerf on hold actually, there's so much complaining about it.
  14. Scr1nRusher

    Look, 0.75 ADS shouldn't be on any LMG.

    Also 0.75 ADS + HA shield is infact a balance issue since it allows the HA to mitigate the HA shield movement speed penalty in ADS allowing the HA to Strafe faster then a 0.5x ADS weapon user ADSing while having the overshield(more durability) on. Combined with the games bad netcode its just a crappy situation.

    The HA shouldn't have access to SMG's & Common Class Pool Shotguns( the 2 pump actions, Baron & the 3 shotguns that look the same).

    Also Shotguns don't need to have 0.75 ADS(This includes the jackhammer, which shouldn't have it anyway because its a Heavy Weapon) since you are primarily Hipfiring them & when using slugs you are not ADAD with them due to needing to accurate hit your targets over range.
  15. MarkAntony

    1. first of all shame on you for calling the vandal bad. it would be a good gun with or without .75 ADS. if oyu think it's bad then the problem is not with the gun, it's with you. other than that you simply say it's OP because you say so. That is circular reasoning. You give no actual reason.
    2. again no proof.
    3. proof needed!
    4. see 1. you are using circular reasoning. "It's OP because I say it's OP and I say it's OP because it's OP"- You
    • Up x 1
  16. Taemien

    I don't play TR or VS much.. but I don't see a faction imbalance mechanic-wise. Though I'm not so blind to ignore the fact that VS wins all alerts. And the Orion gets a substantial amount of kills during alerts.

    However with that said. Statistics during alerts are normally corrupted by cert farming and directive farming. So I don't put my trust entirely into them. They do indicate trends, but nothing decisive.

    My hypothesis is this:

    1. Orion is simply the only useable LMG in the VS arsenal. Lets be honest, if your NC or TR you have to look up the other LMGs because you never see them on the kill screens. Polaris, Ursa, Pulsar, and Flare just aren't seen that often unless someone is farming the Betelgeuse... hence corrupted data on the other LMGs.

    2. Base design favors the Orion and Betelgeuse. From my personal experience, the ADADAD that the Orion can do and the no bullet drop do not save the VS Heavy at 50+ meters. They go down surprisingly fast from a Warden (battle rifle) or Archer. Many times I don't even take damage in return or just shield damage if I do. Its effective in close quarters to mid range, which happens to be where all the base fights (mainly control points) take place.

    This doesn't mean the Orion needs a nerf. The other LMG's don't really need a buff either. What needs to happen is a base redesign where all ranges have a place. 75+ meters (allow Battle Rifles, Scout Rifles, and SASR's to really shine), 50-75m, 30-40m, 20-30m, 10-20m, 5-10m, and 0-5m. Then retool the other VS LMGs to excel in some of these range brackets over the Orion if needed.

    None of that requires removing .75 ADS, none of it requires removing the no-bullet drop.

    No Bullet Drop is not an advantage. Its a perk. It makes firing a weapon at long range, more convenient. Anyone here can compensate for bullet drop within seconds of using a weapon. Unless you all want to call it an advantage for the first 5 seconds of using a weapon. And I do mean anyone here. I don't think everyone is so terrible that they NEED no bullet drop on their weapons to compete. Its nice, but its not going to give you a decisive edge.

    Same thing with .75 ADS. The only time its a good thing is when edging around corners like someone said. But even then that's debatable. In really close action, the weapon is hip firing. Again this is another perk that makes it a little faster to move around while aiming in. It MIGHT save someone from a sniper shot. But I doubt that due to tickrate of the server, latency, and overall lag from computations. Ever noticed your health goes down in large chunks and not gradually? Because damage is NOT applied in real time. Hence kill trading.

    Perks are not Advantages. Faster reload is an Advantage. Larger magazine is an Advantage (Carv). With advantages comes their counter parts. For the Orion its the 50 round mag. For the Carv its the hip accuracy.

    There's your issue. Hip accuracy probably favors the Orion more in base fights than its .75 ADS. Its why if I know if I'm going to be fighting in those ranges.. I'll use the Cyclone. The Orion cannot hope to compete with it. It also has .75 ADS, however I don't use it while ADSing, I hip fire. Its more accurate than the Orion, has a faster TTK, and its reload is insanely faster. But I do have to be careful. I lose the advantage when fighting more than 15m away.

    Fracture is the weapon Daybreak forgot. Its a second line AV weapon like the Vortex and Raven. Both of which fire like their ES Heavy Rocket Launcher. The Fracture does not. So they should make it like a Striker.

    As for the Banshee, I'd change it to give it a niche. I'd remove the splash, bump the damage to 200, and make it bloom less on the CoF. Basically turn it into a Kobalt, but I'd also increase the ammo pool quite a bit. If we really want to give it a TR feel... make it a minigun where it starts at 650RPM and ramps up to 900RPM. That way its a challenge to use, but very freaking deadly to those who can use it properly in a sweep.

    Its a good sign because they may just understand why complaints and stats aren't good basis for changes. They show trends, and give them a place to start. But they've probably looked into it and saw that in practice, what people are complaining about isn't the actual problem.

    Or it could be a bad sign that they aren't actively fixing stuff. Dunno which it is.
    • Up x 5
  17. Scr1nRusher

    If the 2015 update post is any indication bigger things are coming down the pipe.
  18. Dgross

    Maybe you'd like to explain why ADS doesn't effect ADAD?

    You're aiming down the sight of an Orion, you're strafing, and you get a 0.75 movement boost while doing this, which when added to latency affects your hitbox.
  19. Ronin Oni

    The no bullet drop is always coupled with 25m/s slower velocity, so any "distance" on screen you don't need to allow for drop, needs to be added to lead on a moving target.

    It's pracitcally a completely nulled stat. It's just a different flavor of weapon style. You don't need to aim above the target at all, but you need to lead them that much more instead. (granted, if they aren't moving it could be a minor advantage, but adjusting for drop on non-moving targets isn't that hard, and I still prefer higher velocity. Also, the CoF on ALL of PS2's weapons somewhat makes any long range accuracy discussions silly.

    In any case, I agree with the sentiment that bases need better range engagement variety.

    The problem is spam from vehicles requiring shorter distances between buildings or else it's impossible to move much as infantry.
  20. UberNoob1337101

    Now :

    Me : Why would you do that?
    Scr1nRusher : Because it's a balance issue.
    Me : Why is it a balance issue?
    Scr1nRusher : Because it's a balance issue.
    Me : Well here's why it's not a balance issue, why do you think it is and show me why it's a balance issue.
    Scr1nRusher : Because I'm right and always make good decisions and you're wrong, so it's a balance issue.
    Me : ****.
    Scr1nRusher : See you had to resort to insults and bias in order to prove me wrong.

    1 Month ago about the same thing :

    Me : Why would you do that?
    Scr1nRusher : Because it's a balance issue.
    Me : Why is it a balance issue?
    Scr1nRusher : Because it's a balance issue.
    Me : Well here's why it's not a balance issue, why do you think it is and show me why it's a balance issue.
    Scr1nRusher : Because I'm right and always make good decisions and you're wrong, so it's a balance issue.
    Me : ****.
    Scr1nRusher : See you had to resort to insults and bias in order to prove me wrong.

    Somehow this experience leads me to believe that discussing this with you won't get me anywhere.

    Please give me a consolidated, well-written and proven evidence that 0.75 ADS needs to be removed instead of your standard issue "Look, this needs to be removed from this because it needs to be removed because it should be removed from this".
    • Up x 4
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