[Suggestion] Stop spam the C4

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Séfurie, May 23, 2013.

  1. Zaxudih

    the fact that this thread was created by someone with a NC MAX for their profile pic is on of the funniest things I've seen on the forum. Thanks for the laugh Séfurie.
  2. Ixidron

    I'm always posting this in all C4 discussions with the hope of reaching an agreement:

    As an alternative I have this:

    Directional C4: currently C4 can blow up a tank completely ignoring armor and armor certifications, instead it should be directional (they'll have to fix the current tank armor issue).

    Note:bottom armor is the same armor AT mines hit, you cannot place C4 there (with the exception of the magrider), but you can lay traps.

    Lightings: They remain unchanged, 2 blocks of C4 will blow up lightings, independently of C4 placement (lighting= 200 resources= 2 blocks of C4), with some exceptions, having certed into Side/top/front armor or mineguard will affect their survival against C4.

    Meaning 2 blocks of C4 against an upgraded armor will put the lighting on fire, so now armor upgrades and fire extinction system will have a real purpose, mineguard level 3 will protect the lighting from bottom armor explosions, still it will be put on fire, while a maxed out mineguard will leave the lighting just before catching fire (same health as using fire extintion).

    MBTs: 2 blocks of C4 will blow up the tank if placed on the rear or the bottom, if placed on the sides or the top armor the tank will be put on fire, and if placed on the front armor the tank will survive without catching fire, Armor upgrades will allow the tank to survive the explosions without catching fire, mineguard level 3 will protect the MBT from bottom armor explosions, still it will be put on fire, while a maxed out mineguard will leave the MBT just before catching fire.

    Any combination of rear C4 with top/side/bottom armor will blow up the tank, with the exception of maxed out mineguard (this exception applies to MBTs) and rear+front armor (lightings with front armor upgrade will survive), that 2 combinations will leave the tank on fire and severely damaged (5 seconds before exploding unless repaired), this will ignore armor upgrades.

    New Grenade certification for LAs (also replaces HA's AT grenade): Sticky anti-tank grenade, it will cost 100 certifications and 50 infantry resources, 2 blocks of C4+1 sticky AT grenade (250 resources, same as MBTs) will be enough to blow up MBTs independently of C4 placement, with the exception of improved armor in that case the tank will be put on fire, but LAs can cert into extra grenades to counter that.

    Faster to place and detonate C4: Now there will be less delay between C4 placement and detonation. as long as you are not flying or falling (it will be the same as it is now).

    The reason behind this modifications:
    • Engineers can buy 3 blocks of C4, which will be enough to blow up a MBT with improved armor, independently of C4 placement.
    • It will reward flanking and positioning.
    • It will equal the infantry resource cost needed to destroy a MBT with the MBT resource cost.
    • It will level LAs with other classes, since other classes will be able to blow up a MBT using 200 resources and placing C4 on the rear, while LAs can do that, or instead they can spend 250 resources to blow up the tank easily, and since C4 remains a few seconds after dying (until respawning), the Sticky grenade can be used to detonate the C4 even if you failed at pressing the button.
    • It will make armor upgrades, mineguard and fire extinction system matter.
    TL;DR: C4 damage depends on armor (front, side, top, rear, bottom) and armor upgrades/mineguard, new sticky AT grenades (100 certs 50 resources equals resource cost between MBTs and the infantry resources used to blow it up), C4 is faster to place and detonate, C4 remains a few seconds after dying, flanking is rewarded with less resource cost needed to destroy a MBT.

    Another alternative:

    As an alternative we can also split C4 in 2 variants:

    Variant 1 or Shaped charge: The shaped charge is a plastic explosive charge capable of dealing massive damage to vehicles, it must be directly placed in the rear of the vehicle to completely destroy it, otherwise the vehicle will be damaged and catch fire, but it won't be destroyed.
    Plastic explosive is very stable, so it won't explode when hit by bullets but instead it will be rendered non-operational, explosions will still trigger it.

    This shaped charge comes equipped with both a remote detonator and time bomb type detonator, meaning you won't lose your resources if you got killed after placing but not detonating it, it will also give some time for the vehicle owner to bail out if he was the one noticing and killing you or if he got warned.

    It also comes equipped with a magnetic-pressure hybrid detonator, meaning it can be placed in friendly vehicles and be used to ram other enemy vehicles, the charge will explode by contact.

    This charge must be placed by holding the left mouse for 0.5 seconds, meaning it cannot be placed into fast moving vehicles, but you can always try to place it into slow moving vehicles.

    Price will be 200 resources and 200 certifications, you'll be able to carry 2 at a time.

    Variant 2 or standard C4: This variant will behave like the one we have now, with the exception of dealing less damage to armor, it will cost less resources to compensate (85 resources), and will come with the brand new dead man switch detonator, so, if you die all your C4 will detonate after a couple of seconds.

    TL;DR: Split C4, shaped charge, must be placed, Anti-Vehicle, normal C4 AI, less damage against vehicles.
  3. Mythicrose12

    This thread again??

    Good grief. MBTs have a secondary gunner position for a reason. MBTs also have secondaries capable of killing infantry. MBTs, Lightnings, and Sundies can have a radar equipped. As a player with over 1000 C4 kills....keep your damn vehicles moving and if in a MBT or Sundie, have people man the guns. If you play as a lone wolf, camping a spawn while you watch ****...don't be suprised when I plant C4 on you.
  4. theholeyone

    Its the 'as well as' bit I was refering too, you clearly think tanks have enough to deal already and thus shouldn't worry about infantry apart from HAs and Engies. Of course they can buff other things, but you're yet to make a case why C4 should be removed, about why close range explosives is damaging to gameplay; because the way I see it, it just adds another layer of tactical offense and defense.

    Of course I've guarded sunderers for entire battles, I've also worked with my outfit to push out from sunderers in such a way that the remain covered. Other times we have run as mobile spawn platforms, deploying every once in a while or as needed, then moving on again with gunners to go hunt down enemies; it's actually pretty fun. The guy with the jetpack has to first know where the sunderer is, and second fly through the air which is incredibly exposed if anyone bothers to look.

    Precious much? your crys for nerf on something that you cannot be bothered actually taking the time to counter gives the impression you play like a nub. And it's hardly a baseless assumption, if C4 is gone what tools will LA and medic have against armor?
  5. Xind

    My issue with c4 is purely with Light Assault. It's too easy to drop it on targets that have difficulty retaliating on you. I think this is due to how the hit box moves when an LA is in air and if they're at an angle or directly above you they have way less surface area to shoot at, not to mention most of that area is legs which have a reduced damage multiplier (I think). Not saying remove it, but I really do think LA flight hit box needs to be examined, in much the same way Jumping (rabbit leaping) hit box was examined.
  6. theholeyone

    Did I say it took skill? Perhaps the 'very sneakily' part you mean, which I guess depends a lot on who the LA is playing against, but if it is people who look up and check for targets often, then yeh, he will have to be sneaky. If its a derp max who doesn't bother, then no, it'll just be fly up and smash him, which is good skill balance tbh, if you ignore significant threats, then there is nothing wrong with those threats killing you.
  7. Wafletofles

    ummmmm..... yeah no. maybe if the time to drop and activate c-4 is decreased, it doesn't despawn on death, and has a 2x splash radius. And even then, I think not.
  8. Udnknome


    Another person who probably hasn't played the game since GU4
  9. FigM

    I think something is very wrong when infantry can out-range armor.

    Infantry should be close range only, as far as their heavy weapon options go. Tanks should dominate long range heavy weaponry. Tanks should fear infantry only in close quarters
  10. Hoki

    Omfg some of you are actually taking this seriously?

    Ok then lets get a serious suggestion

    Suggested C4 changes:
    • None.
    • It's fine.
    • Stop whining.
  11. HellasVagabond

    With the same reasoning we wouldn't have long range weapons carried by infantry whether we are talking about the real world or a game......Yet we do.....However in real life you don't see people using C4 to blow up tanks (unless we are talking about John Rambo).

    A nerf is inevitable much like with everything that is OP in this game, only the when is unknown.
  12. Hoki

    Dooon't stop belieevin
  13. FigM

    Real life has nothing to do with this. I'm talking about game balance, having distinct roles for different types of fighting units.

    Right now Infantry can directly compete with armor, they can hold their own against massive armor at medium-long range. That simply shouldn't happen. Infantry have too many roles which they can perform well, and unlike vehicles, they don't suffer the limitations of resources and spawn timers.

    This game used to have serious tank battles, where losing a tank battle had real consequences, often resulting in loss of base. Now what happens when 1 side loses its armor? it just respawns as infantry and continues to fight against enemy armor at medium/long ranges - successfully. The battle flow is a lot more static, depending much more on pure number of players involved rather than the equipment they have or tactics they use.
  14. Ixidron

    The fact that everyone else against the nerf is saying the same thing instead of using arguments and being constructive and the fact that this is the 4th or 5th thread regarding the same doesn't make you think it's time for a rebalance?
    Also, pretty much everyone is saying C4 is fine except when LAs use it.

    I disagree about removing it from LAs, but instead they should not be able to use it while flying or at least have an small penalty like an extended dropping and detonation time, either that or my suggestion above should work.
  15. iller

    • Make it glow like Grenades during that period when it's being thrown. (it can stop glowing once it lands somewhere).
    • Make it Drop straight down... no Lag-Warping magical screw-ball throws that somehow teleport straight behind people in CQC and then blow clean through Walls and everything else.
    Right now it's really Buggy... that's why you see it getting Spammed.
    Fix the bugs/visibility/lagwarping & exploits, and you won't need to "nerf" any of its Stats
  16. LightningWolfTigrBer

    There is a hard counter to C4 equipped LA's, it's called proximity radar.
  17. Hoki

    1) What nerf?
    2) There isn't going to be a nerf.
    3) No it doesn't make me think it's time for a rebalance. It makes me think that there are a lot of people that would rather nerf something that they find annoying than to take it upon themselves to learn how to defeat it.

    If you play as a max, there are certain things you need to watch out for. The suit doesn't make you invincible, and spending 200 inf resources does not entitle you to not be OHK.

    If you're driving a vehicle and you get blown up by C4 then someone either left a cleverly placed trap and has the patience of a saint, or you weren't aware of the situation. (situational awareness) Either way you deserve to die. Unless you're a sunderer, apparently nothing is allowed to kill a sunderer.
  18. Spookydodger

    It's 100 resources nominally for 1 block of c4. That means in 10ish minute timespan, one can only "spam" it 7 times. One time a minute per person.

    If you're talking about multiple people using it, then you're just plain out of luck. I'm sure people would want the same treatment for missile spam, tank spam, plane spam. Stop the splatmax spam. Well, I know how to stop it now... with c4!
  19. Jalek

    Tanks need to have armor. C4 bundles dropped onto a flat surface will hardly cut through it.
  20. Ixidron

    this is a videogame, it's sole purpose is to be fun, if there is something being really annoying as part as that videogame you'll find people against it.

    C4 is not only annoying in the hands of LAs, it just unfair to everyone that's not a LA, specially MAXes and magriders.

    Also stop saying that stupidity of situational awareness, it means absolutely nothing if you are stuck in 2 dimensions and that guy has 3 to roam around free, saying "next time have situational awareness" is the same as saying "next time look right instead of left and you might or might not see someone", you cannot control everything in a bubble around you, you can only see what's in a cone in front of you.

    Seriously, what do you actually want to mean with situational awareness? you blew up because you were not looking at the sky at that precise moment? you blew up because you were shooting at another guy that precise moment? always check the skies every 10 seconds even if there are several people shooting at you? or is it just a pathetic excuse to keep C4 as it is?

    I've got instantly killed by a source I couldn't see and I couldn't fight--> next time have situational awareness.

    I've seen so many people using that ridiculous sentence to answer everything that it no longer means anything.

    Got sniped--> have situational awareness.
    Pump actions are lame--> have situational awareness.
    Rocketpods are op--> have situational awareness.
    X,Y,Z is op--> have situational awareness.
    A drop pod just fall in top of my tank/sunderer and someone C4'd it before rendering properly---> have situational awareness.

    Every single thread.

    You wanna know how many tanks I've lost to non-LAs plating C4? not a single one since the beta, maybe I have that so called situational awareness or something like it, if a medic an engineer or a HA ever manages to plant C4 at my rear without me noticing I would probably congratulate him, that flying pests I can't even see are another story.