Stim

Discussion in 'Light Assault' started by asdfPanda, Mar 11, 2014.

  1. asdfPanda

    Can we have something like stim from Titanfall as our class specific tool? You would use it like you would use a medkit, press 3, pop it, then you can run much faster for a short while.
    • Up x 1
  2. TheGreatMahoo

    Seems like a good idea to me. Sure beats the Adrenaline Pump.
  3. starlinvf

    Theres a reason Surge was pulled during very early testing (and why Charge on a MAX is so effective)..... very fast movement breaks a lot of things about the game play. To even consider adding something like this, they'd have to add weapons made to deal with fast moving targets... which would in turn be twice as effective against normal infantry because of how balancing against hit probability work in this game.
  4. asdfPanda

    I didn't say very, I said faster. The stim in Titanfall isn't that drastic.

    If you see a target moving fast, lead more. That's all there is to it.
    Drifter Jets haven't broken the game, so if stim is about as fast as drifters, then it shouldn't be a problem.
  5. starlinvf


    Drifters can't instantly change vector like sprinting can. Titanfall also uses hitscan on most of its weapons, so leading isn't even a factor, making faster targets easy to deal with. Those 2 seemly minor details make a world of difference in game play...... or have we already forgotten the reign of ZOE MAXs?
  6. Killerdude8

    I think the Classes should all have base speed modifiers, LA and Infiltrators would be the fastest, MAXes and Heavies the Slowest.

    But if SOE doesn't want to do that, This would be pretty cool to have.
  7. Tar


    It worked without issue in Planetside 1, which had about double TTKs and overall slower shooting weapons.
    What's the reason it's so bad again?
  8. asdfPanda

    Yes, but you can't shoot while sprinting. Also, ZOE didn't have a movement bonus, it had a damage bonus as well. Also, I fail to see how not having to lead makes a difference. In Planetside 2, you already can lead, you just have to lead more to hit faster targets. Infantry movement doesn't even compare to ESF movement, yet ESF gameplay isn't incredibly broken.

    I'm not saying that you don't have a point, but faster movement(merely on 1 class, mind you) won't have a large impact on gameplay. It's like heavy assaults: if heavy assaults can have better durability, why can't light assaults have better mobility in their currently nonexistent tool slot?
  9. starlinvf

    You must had joined late then. In the era of the before time, whose memory is lost to the pageranks of youtube, there was a race of creature that roamed the lands of Auraxis. More machine then man, this creature moved with the speed of Flash but carried the firepower of a MAX. The king of this master race was known the SurgeHammer, appearing out of nowhere with a series of "kerchunks", and then disappear with nothing but pile of bodies in its wake. Its brother, the SurgeLasher, was an odd creature... it would unleash a flurry of disco orbs of death, then run head long into them and kill himself. The other brother, SurgeMCG, never liked his name.... he wasn't scary either.



    There a number of flaws in your thinking......

    To understand the difference in pacing, strategy and skill, then you need not look further then PS1 vs PS2, and ARMA vs BF3. Now compare any of those to MW2. Take MW2, add Parkour and Armored Core and you have TitanFall. Speed remains the single most influential factor in an FPS game's design, and directly impacts how the rest of the game can function. This all comes back to the simple fact that human reactions are inherently slow, and the faster we need to react, the more we rely on physiological shortcuts to make up the gap. Slower paced games allow the brain time to process information, cognitively develop a plan, run simulations, and properly weigh decisions. Faster paced games force you to predict and react to situations rapidly, relying more on trial and error to develop plans, and repetition to reduce execution time.

    By virtue of your belief, a speed hack should not have an impact in games, because a person can compensate for the difference. The truth here is that it exacerbates a statistical phenomena I can't remember the name for... but the jist being that as the number of variables, time, or both increase, there is an exponential increase in the number of probable outcomes. This phenomena is most clearly recognized by snipers attempting to second guess a target's movement. The faster they move, the more they need to lead. But the more erratic the movement, the more difficult it is to accuracy predict where they need to aim to properly connect a shot.

    The point here being the damage bonus on ZOE paled in comparison to the movement boost. The current version of ZOE has a fraction of the movement bonus. If you asked the VS about the old ZOE vs new ZOE, the answer will always emphasis the movement. The resistance reduction hasn't changed that much between the 2, but old version inherently mitigated its weakness by being able to avoid fire. In fact..... this whole issue exploited a flaw in movement acceleration during ADAD, which made a previously small issue into a full blown problem.

    Second, you cherry picked the wrong ESF argument to support your own. ESF movement only has thrust power on 2 vectors, and has inertial physics applied to it. But one of those vectors (vertical thrust) has stronger acceleration applied to it, allowing them to change their velocity vector faster then most people can manipulate the same control system to follow. That is technically "broken", as its a fringe case that defies the movement standard used throughout the rest of the game. Its only accepted on the ground that its difficult to leverage, but does add an entirely new dimension to gameplay that couldn't exist otherwise. However, take a skilled ESF pilot and pit him against a ground target, and then ask the target if it felt like he could had done anything to avoid death.


    Lastly, even if I entertained this idea, saying it'll have controlled impact by only being on one class is delusional. If its not inherently countered balanced within the class, then it can easily run out of control as people leverage it. C4 on LA, Shotguns on Infil, Shotguns on LA, Shotguns on MAXs, UBGL on Engineer, Flying Magriders, Suicide AT mines, the long history of the AV Mana Turret, Day 1 Phoenix, Gen1 Vulcan, Pre-splash Nerf Bulldog, Pre-splash nerf Zeyphr, Pre-splash nerf Rocket Pods, Ramming ESFs, and the number 1 thing in Planetside 2 that got out of hand....... Day 1 Striker.


  10. Tar

    I obviously mean after it was made impossible to surge while sprinting
  11. asdfPanda

    A speed hack does and should have an impact in games. That's why I called for Stim in the first place. A player can counter/compensate for increased speed through their tracking aim and leading. Also, it is inherently harder to maintain aim on an moving opponent if you yourself are stimmed and moving. Therefore, the balance is attained through the Stim ability and player skill.

    I'm not calling for Stim to be a drastic change to movement/strafing. In fact, to expand upon my original idea, Stim could be split into a strafing bonus(say 1.0 movement multiplier while ads and 1.25 multiplier while hipfiring) stim, and a sprinting bonus stim. Of course, a drastic change would be overpowered, but if carefully controlled and thoroughly playtested, Stim would only serve to expand upon Light Assault and infantry gameplay as a whole.

    Also, please address how a Stim comparable to the speed of drifter jets would break the game, if you can't shoot while sprinting.

    Yes, but a multitude of pacings in a game would reward different aspects of player skill, rather than focusing on one aspect of player skill. Right now, Planetside 2 is mostly about knowing your surroundings and maintaining a good situational awarness. This is why Heavy Assaults are the premier class to play: they give you enough grace to utilize situational awareness, because their shield allows for room to respond to threats in the environment better. mplementing a stim would reward tracking and twitch aiming, as opposed to good recoil compensation and burst fire.

    Although an ESF has thrust power in 2 vectors, it still can work in the third due to yaw and roll. I don't see how your discussion of ESFs is relevant to the argument. However, if you can present an argument on how afterburners breaks air gameplay(because I consider stim a weak equivalent to afterburners), then by all means, do so.

    Yes, a skilled ESF pilot may dominate a ground target, but that is what ESFs are meant to do, and that is what teamwork is supposed to counter.
    I haven't even established the parameters upon which the Stim ability would be implemented. Light assault, being a relatively neglected class, could use this idea, in order to bring it in line with other things in Planetside 2.

    If tested and adjusted, Stim would be a great addition to the LA class, which is currently lacking a tool slot.
  12. starlinvf

    I wouldn't consider the LA neglected. If it wasn't for the sustained power of LMGs, everyone would had been running light assaults for the simple fact that mobility in this game is second only to firepower. A lot of things in this game get over powered when you have an on demand terrain advantage.
  13. DFDelta

    I'll quote myself from the Light Assault Revamp thread.

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  14. Sandpants

    Get up on ridge, slide down a ridge, get up on ridge, slide down. ADS, get forced out of ADS, ADS again, get epilepsy because of the constant zooming in and out.

    On demand terrain advantage is available at like 3 bases total on each continent because the terrain around most others is either obvious or crap.

    The mobility given by jetpack is barely responsive and is littered with loads of un-intuitive delays and slowdowns. LA feels like tissue paper. Both handling and survivability. It's like the flash of infantry, where the flash is like a drunk boar.

    But yeah people need to keep trying to justify a class they pop up as when they're solo, get a few random kills and think "yah mobilty gud"
  15. starlinvf


    Then you aren't thinking hard enough. Low ground and hill cover is equally powerful as high ground.... its all about the angles. With the Jetpack, you can efficiently transition between them, scaling all but the sheerest of cliffs. It doesn't matter what kind of terrain you're traversing..... if you're exposed you can be shot.

    Frankly your expectations are extremely off considering how the other classes move. If what you're describing was the case, then removing the jet wouldn't change how the class operated.
  16. Korban


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