Stats stats stats and stats ! NC hardmode version 2

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by CoreCombat, Oct 22, 2013.

  1. Aegie

    What NC weapons have a higher than other factions? Show me. Oh, by the way, you showing me is going through the data and posting those bits and guess what, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

    Lets have a real discussion about this.

    What weapons would you like me to compare?
    • Up x 2
  2. Van Dax

    this is ONLY the vanguard we're talking about.
    you can use kpu for infantry kills, vehicle vs vehicle balance is not only infantry kills, the van is the best AT but I could choose to bail every single time and the van would never get any kpu. If you don't include vehicle kills separately from KPU you have no idea of their composition %.
    • Up x 1
  3. axiom537

    The NC attract the same FPS players as the TR and VS, why don't you leave your bigoted beliefs at the door.
    • Up x 3
  4. ViXeN

    LOL I don't know what I am talking about? Really? Yeah, I have only seen this problem (tons of casuals being drawn to a certain faction because they think its cool) on multiple games. And lets face it, people seem to think "Space Murica" is cool. :eek:

    I actually just played an MMORPG earlier this year where this exact same thing happened. Its called SWTOR and most people went to the Imperial side because they thought it was cool. So it was no surprise that it had such a high number of really bad players. Its like how bad gamers are drawn to easier games like COD and the more skilled gamers play games like Counterstrike. We don't care about how "cool" a game looks or what kind of silly gimmicks they add to attract players, we care more about the game play and challenge.

    You want to know what offends me? People making excuses for not being able to keep up with everyone else in a game.
  5. Shatters

    Thats strange, the crowd told me a few months ago (when NC was still overpopped on most servers) that the NC had a lower score/minute because we had less targets to shoot on. Now the NC is the underpopped faction, and suddenly being underpopped = lower score/hour. I am starting to see a trend here. :eek:
    • Up x 7
  6. CDN_Wolvie

    You're not arguing in good faith here Van, you brought up the infantry impact on KPU.

    What I am counter arguing is that just comparing the AV power of one tank vs the other is a shallow comparison, not the KPU. The tank vs tank confrontations are just one point of data on the entire set that the KPU pulls from.

    You keep talking about your own kills, we're talking about everyone's kills. That compositional % is just a drop in the bucket and does not address the systemic issues.
    • Up x 1
  7. Aegie

    Maybe you were not following the forums then- if you want you can go dig through the old posts and find that data.

    I'm not trying to "shoehorn" anything- it is called convergent evidence.

    Like I said and you failed to address "Furthermore, if range compression was the issue then as I showed you upon request earlier in this very thread why would the long range NC option fail when compared to the long range TR/VS options meanwhile the short range NC options fails when compared to the short range TR/VS options? Both of these cannot hold and yet provide evidence that is not contradictory to your hypothesis."
    • Up x 2
  8. Revanmug

    Open field battle wouldn't change a thing. The stats on special NC weapon just plain suck.

    -There is no reason to use the AXC11 over the Razor or even the default mercenary for longer range.
    -There is no reason to use the DMR over the default gauss Rifle. hell, I would say the carnage BR is better at long range.

    -Hell, I don't even use the Gauss SAW over the EM6 at "long" range because the thing become incredibly imprecise as soon as you move which defeat the entire purpose of the gun. The only reason it is usuable is because of its higher velocity and large magazine (normal LMG mag) which is something none of the 2 previous guns has.

    NC has never dominated the open field. I'm not sure why you suddenly came up with that. None of the weapon hurt enough to actually stop people from coming forward. Death is never an issue either, making fighting at long range pointless.

    In the end, NC trait is pointless because the entire game was build against it. Guess which one is easier to change at this point?
    • Up x 4
  9. Van Dax

    acx-11 sucks ***, comparing it over and over again isn't going to change that. using it as the only example doesn't change my response. but because you insist
    t5amc are better in the short range (which results in more kpu because of range compression) and they're better in the long range because its still a ****** gun. you can say optionS over and over again it won't change that you've been comparing 12 other guns to your ****** one.

    acx-11 sucks
    GD-7f is literally just a worse serpent, mega problems with legacy balancing on this one, used to be the other way around.

    If range compression wasn't the issue then what is? vanu have long range weapons too, they totally under perform our long range ones too.
    • Up x 1
  10. Aegie

    They do not need to change the trait, just specific values. It is pretty simple really, in Beta NC was regarded as OP (I was VS at the time) and they received a blanket nerf before release. The way to fix these weapons is simply to improve the stats- my personal desire would be to see an up tick in damage per shot so that NC actually do the most damage (and not just most damage per shot neutered by ROF so they do the least damage).

    Show of hands for those who thought the NC was the damage faction and not the damage per shot with a ROF that means less actual damage over time.
    • Up x 3
  11. Aegie

    Okay, so ACX-11 sucks, GD-7F sucks (somehow you seem to forget that people have been stuck with these sucky weapons for almost a year now). Are you saying I cannot talk about the NC weapons that suck? That might be a problem, I think we will end up only talking about the Blitz.

    You're obviously getting really upset that the ACX-11 sucks and the GD-7F too I suppose.

    Lets about the Merc- no wait, that comes in last as well when we look at default carbines...what about the Gauss burst...nope that one too...Gauss Compact S...nope last again...I know the Razor...nope that one too...hmmm...well, that is all the Carbines so I guess we will have to look elsewhere for a comparison that will not piss you off.

    How about this, tell me what LMGs are "matches" across the factions and we will look at those.
    • Up x 2
  12. Revanmug

    I do actually believe every "long" range weapon in this game, whatever the faction, sucks plain and simple. There are several explication as to why and they aren't all link to gun's damage even though it sure don't help.

    The simplest one is that there is no reason to do so. Killing someone at long range take several time longer than the time to get him back with a medic. Even without a medic, the time for him to respawn and return to his spot is so fast that you won't even have the time to move in. There is no bonus for long range engagement. There is no penalty for dying.

    So why would you waste your time? Close in and murder people. They won't have time to react at that range. You'll be back up in 15 sec of you die anyway.

    Change, buff, fix, etc... Whatever words float your boat really. I can simply tell that their idea about "NC better at range" has never really work. At this point, I really doubt anything will happen so I'm not waiting for anything.
    • Up x 1
  13. Van Dax

    sigh I explined the GD-7f, it was a stupid move on soe's part if you don't remember the serpent used to have a massive reload time (highest out of the carbines I believe) so nobody used it because High rof + small mag + long reload is a bad combo, on the other side the NC had what is basically the serpent as it is and the TR complained about it constantly (of course since their carbines had just gotten nerfed, still the best even after that lol) so what we have here is a bad balancing move but its not like your wasn't straight better before hand so you can't say it was just anti-nc nerfing.

    but sure some places where nc beat the VS, AR's the H-v45 that everyone uses is beat by the carnage BR and the GR-22, the gauss rifle beats the pulsar. burst and ubgl don't really matter but NC win here too, reaper dmr beats both cme and corvus.
    so thats all nc AR's outdo the VS versions.

    flare and ursa are 12.6 and 13, NC 167's are anchor at 15.1 (remember what I said bout like comparions :p) em6 14.876 SawS 13.228 and GD-22s at a measly 9.947
    so as you can see the NC faction trait weapons beat the VS emulators (except the dirt cheap one which is honestly just a worse anchor imo no real reason for it to exist)
    em1 predictably falls behind its equivalents, gauss saw is of course behind orion. pulsar lsw beats gd-22s (both the cheap carbines, neither have a reason to exist over being worse versions of regular ones)
    and of course the sva-88 is the best.
    I did them by damage profile due to vanu's lack of a consistent naming scheme, its hard to know which one is the "orion S" for example.

    IDK man we beat you in carbines, you beat us in assault rifles, our 167 damage mgs are much worse than yours but we have two really solid guns in the orion and sva-88
    kinda a toss up.
    • Up x 1
  14. CanadianAttackBeaver

    I wonder why no TR fanbois are commenting on the Vulcan-H stats? An order of magnitude larger than the Enforcer-H and quadruple the Saron-H... nope, no problem there, move along! Or how about that Marauder-H?.... shhhhhh!

    The Grand Totals tab shows interesting trends; clearly the NC have the biggest learning curve and the TR the smallest with Vanu somewhere in-between. KPU is similar across factions, but only because the NC's higher ranked members pull ahead of the TR and Vanu equivalents.

    NC and Vanu average 50 and 51% less average popluation than the TR, respectively.
    NC and Vanu average 21 and 18% less average kills than the TR, respectively
    KPU is a worthless ******* stat unless it is given over a specified time period.
    • Up x 1
  15. Bape

    Reason why we are loosing is our empire specific weapons. What can shotguns do in a long range battle? What can the phoenix do in a long range battle if tank is at 301m+ range? How can NC coordinate with the phoenix?

    I play all 3 factions and what I notice in TR/VS is we always beat NC when attacking them when it a large scale battle that evolves tanks which decide who will have the most firepower when they reach the base.

    As tr/vs they easily take out the NC tanks thank to the instant shot lancer and lock on striker that a squad can use to basically take out tanks before they have time to react.

    When I play NC I notice WE always loose because our tanks die and the enemy tanks are barely touched. Reason? our phoenix has a range limit, it can be shot down, can not coordinate with it, bad damage, long reload. All our empire specific weapons are basically shotguns and our abilities suck.

    Long range battles
    Vortex>raven=fracture( best at destroying tanks. Don't remember if raven have range limit if it does fracture wins over ravens)
    VS max > tr max > nc max (overall performance at long range)
    VS=TR>NC it a battle with tanks/maxes/infantry/air
    • Up x 1
  16. Aegie

    You may want to share this with Dax, just started a thread about how making more long range open area battles would help the NC.

    It is hilarious how NC do just fine with all the carbon copy gear, actually reliably ahead of TR in a lot of cases. As soon as it is something empire specific that is more or less reversed, by a large margin, across the board.

    Not just with the "iconic" NC weapons either but all the way through weapons like the GD-7F. The issue is that the developers weigh damage per shot too heavily and things like ROF, ammo in the mag and DPS too lightly. NC really should be the damage faction IMO, it is just a nut shot to be the "hardest hitting" faction and yet tend to have the lowest DPS overall and the "hardest hitting" weapons also be the low DPS weapons. Just misleading.

    Now we see the consequences of one faction tending to have high ROF, most ammo, and greatest DPS. VS with stats in the middle is generally in the middle (except among LMGs where they have a pretty clear advantage since most already have sufficient ammo even is only 50 rounds) then NC dead last on these stats. That anyone finds these results surprising is really beyond me.
    • Up x 5
  17. doombro

    How about instead of throwing vague charts at us, you actually explain what about your weapons prevents NC from getting kills, and what needs to be balanced? So far, I've only heard crying about your stats and WDS scores.

    I'll grant you that the enforcer modified is garbage, but that aside, NC's arsenal is pretty damn solid to my experience.
    • Up x 1
  18. MilitiaMan

    You are partially right but that isn't the case in this game.

    I have seen just as many bads on VS, TR and NC.

    VS weapons work better than NC and TR weapons. This comes from personal experience, there isn't much on any faction I have not played with.

    Comets > Falcon/Ravens
    ZOE > Scatmax
    SVA-88 > NC LMG
    Serpent/VX > NC Carbines

    I could go on, the fact remains that VS weapons are easy to use and people have been seeing this more and more which is causing the easy mode players to start flocking to it.

    TR is pretty balanced accept maybe that stupid Vulcan-H crap, hate that **** on VS and NC.
  19. Aegie

    Every single one of our Carbines is outperformed by both other factions by margins around the 22-35%.

    Many of us have explained, over and over again, in great detail exactly what the problem is and what the solutions are and guess what? We get more flaming like this "crying" BS. There is a word for what you are doing and I am not allowed to say it on the forums.
    • Up x 5
  20. Van Dax

    you're right in a way, that post does nothing directly to influence faction balance, in my opinion its a larger issue that NC might benefit from it changing. I'd rather fix the game and then fix the weapons to correspond to a fixed game, its also a hell of a lot easier to get people to agree with you when you aren't saying that every single weapon on one faction needs a buff. Notice how many TR avatars are supporting or at least giving their own ideas, they're the ones that would lose out the most if it were changed in that way (least long range variety and most of it is arguably worse) because their faction specific stuff is much better tailored to the mostly close range combat we get now.

    you have the opinion that rather than weapon type, weapon "iconic-ness" is what should be balanced against but the game isn't designed that way, you figured that you should have both the highest damage and the highest dps, which would be no way balanced against your smaller recoil. TR get high DPS but a lot of it is restricted by the high H. recoil, you get lower dps but the lowest unmanageable recoil and less vertical recoil per second (the em6 has less vertical (per second, same per bullet) and horizontal than the sva-88 oh and more dps and a larger mag size)
    and of course the real iconics you "win", gauss rifle, jackhammer, magshot, by kpu anyway.:p
    its not practical.