Stats stats stats and stats ! NC hardmode version 2

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by CoreCombat, Oct 22, 2013.

  1. Bankrotas

    Wouldn't say ACX-11 is "long range carbine" due to low velocity. Razor is our long range. ACX-11 is just our niche gun with too many drawback to be niche.
    Personally I use it as universal carbine, works decently, since TTK is equal to 750 rpm carbs.
    • Up x 1
  2. Van Dax

    stop manipulating the stats to prove your point.
    sum short and long ones separately, then come back.
    I KNOW its unbalanced but you need to present a cohesive argument without such massive holes in it, if I, someone who agrees with you on the situation can't agree with your argument you need to revise.
    • Up x 3
  3. Bankrotas

    I'm too lazy to login to google docs to check, so I'm using dasanfall stats, and those seem to be pretty much decently balanced.

    That however only states, that NC does not have upper hand in long range combat.
  4. Aegie

    Right, so what you are saying here is that TR traits>NC traits thanks to the way the game is designed- thanks, we agree, you just seem to be shy about being upfront about it.

    Soooo, lets compare the ACX-11 (you know, the weapon that, based on the above, should be about 22% better than the AMC- i.e. better than the AMC by the amount the Jaguar is better than the GD-7F) gets 9.10; AMC gets 10.74 and the Pulsar C gets 10.42. Odd, the weapon that should be hands down better than these two options still only gets 85% the performance of its TR counterpart and 87% the performance of its VS counterpart.

    Now that is strange isn't it- I compared the weapons you said to compare and even claim that NC should have advantage and not only does NC not have any appreciable advantage but they are still being outperformed.

    Lets put this another way, if the flagship NC weapon outperformed the TR counterpart by the same margin as the flagship TR weapon outperforms its NC counterpart then we would expect the ACX-11 to be getting an average KPU of 13.10 or an average of 4 more kills per user or an increase of 43.96% in performance.
    • Up x 6
  5. Van Dax

    I need to get me one of them registration codes.
  6. Van Dax

    and thats what I was looking for, see? beyond a shadow of a doubt.
  7. LohaMoha

    You don't have to be logged in to see it.
  8. Aegie

    I'm not manipulating anything- the data is right there for anyone one to see and there is a perfectly valid reason for comparing the most iconic NC weapon to the most icon TR weapon- especially if what you want to discuss is how the faction traits are not balanced.

    You are being argumentative simply because you do not like what you are hearing.
    • Up x 1
  9. Aegie

    Do not be so pedantic and patronizing, it makes you look like an arrogant person for no reason and shows that your interest here was never one about having a meaningful discussion.
  10. dragonwinds

    Connery alert= 45% Vanu 32% Terran 26% New Conglomerate. enough has been said.
    • Up x 2
  11. Aegie

    No, apparently not since we still have the crap balance throughout.
  12. Airazor

    Well in my opinion fellow warriors I like fighting the NC. It does not feel over powered, it feels like a fair fight other the then TR. Speaking as a main VS that is, the NC fights I have are always good and fun. With the TR however I always feel outgunned (which is the stat's on waterson) and they feel over powered.

    Anyways, I think the NC just need more players and that would even things out a bit. Perhaps allot of the NC players are faction hoppers that go to the TR or VS for wins? Maybe NC is just a back up faction of choice? I have a NC toon and like the weapons and tanks especially. NC fit my play style more because of the "power at close range" type weapons, however I already spent money and ALLOT of time on my VS toon haha so I stay VS. Plus my outfit is there!

    However IT is SOOO tempting to switch my whole outfit over to the TR because it would be winning every day haha (on Waterson). Easy weapons and massive numbers to back you up.....but NEVER! haha I have a digital hatred for TR so NC, you are my brothers from other mothers.

    Now if you guy's weren't so much like Cerberus (mass effect) I would be able to stand behind you haha
  13. Van Dax

    I'm concerned with balance just as much as anyone else but there's a right way and a wrong way to analyze data and construct arguments. The data agrees with my hypothesis as a general trend total rather than just these one on on specific cases, I'm also not motivated by my own bias to construct arguments to buff my enemies compared to your behavior when I used your method of balance to prove a particular VS LMG was inferior to a particular NC LMG you couldn't even respond logically to the situation and just let out a "are you serious VS lmgs are best no exceptions".

    There is a lot of bias on these forums from all factions where range and what ranges are useful. If you ask the TR amusingly back in February it was only close range matters so NC max OP and then with a few months ago it was accuracy and range matter we only have ****** TMG NC GodSAW OP! Analyze the VS's historical arguments and its always the same (not due to any particular reason othe than we've never had a reason to argue otherwise) that range beyond mid range doesn't matter, all combat takes place where short mid range weapons are perfectly capable of fighting at. Its only when long range weapons hit outide of render range do they really become powerful.
    • Up x 1
  14. Aegie

    There was exactly nothing wrong with the way I was presenting my argument or the data- you wanted to see something different and that is fine but it simply does not invalidate what I presented and why. I do this for a living, have for years, and get paid fairly handsomely to do so. I chose to look at the ACX-11 because it is the most NC carbine and the Jaguar because it is the most TR because I was more interested in seeing how the faction traits stacked up to one another. You were interested in a very different question. That is all.
    • Up x 2
  15. Vastly

    You don't need to manipulate data, only be selective in the data that is presented versus excluded (cherry picking) and what comparison is drawn with what.

    Now you want to compare the balance of specific faction traits? Ignoring the fact that this is irrelevant if NC have weapons which also cover other faction traits.
    • Up x 1
  16. Aegie

    No, I want to compare NC traits (low ROF*high damage per shot) to TR traits (high ROF*low damage per shot*greater mag capacity; and resulting greater DPS). So, you tell me, how do you do that?
    • Up x 1
  17. Aegie

    How does this make anything irrelevant? You are basically saying that it is okay for NC traits to be inferior because they have things that approximate the other faction traits that are superior. In what world is that balanced?

    Moreover, the GD-7F (you know, the Carbine that borrows from TR traits) results in 22% fewer kills per user than the Jaguar. Oh, and the AMC (and Pulsar C) both out perform the ACX-11.

    All that is irrelevant, however, if what you want to do is compare how the faction traits influence performance because then you want to compare the extreme of one faction's traits to the extreme of another. Saying this is invalid just because it provides evidence for a conclusion you find distasteful is BS. In fact, this comparison is the perfect kind of comparison for exactly what I have been saying all along- that NC "traits", when compared to TR "traits" are inferior as they now stand.

    It is really pretty simple. The idea of balance among the faction traits should be that a weapon with high ROF and low damage per bullet should perform on par with a weapon with low ROF and high damage per shot. If they are not balanced, then the faction traits are not balanced.

    This is not difficult to comprehend once you put your bias aside.
    • Up x 3
  18. Van Dax

    And do you know why the T5 AMC and pulsar C outperform the acx? because they can do close range better than the acx, and because as we can agree long range isn't as important or common, a significant portion of use of these guns is close quarters.
    This is where you have a decision to make in what you want to argue, do you think that means your faction traits suck, the game's treatment of ranged combat sucks, or that gun sucks?
    My opinion is that NC's faction traits are fine, its just the game gives no incentive for open field combat (where NC rule) and this is part of a larger problem in the game that is not NC specific. There are too many bases (on Indar) and too many ways to bypass a field defense and infantry based AV is so strong that you can't hold a field line. My first battle after lattice was introduced was a 2 hour conflict in the hills of middle west Indar, several hundred guys on both sides with no base to take just fighting over every inch of land-NC would be an awesome and strong faction if this were the norm.
    • Up x 1
  19. Vastly

    Differences between faction traits are irrelevant when factions are not restricted to weapons of said trait. You don't need a bazillion guns all carrying out the same job. Only one of similar equivalence. The question you should be asking is: Does NC have a weapon of equivalent performance for long range, medium range and short range with similar degrees of "overlap"? How do these equivalent weapons compare in performance? Does a gap exist in weapon selection which may be argued has a disproportionate effect on overall carbine effectiveness? To pick an extreme example, all long range weapons and no short range weapons when most combat happens at short range.
    • Up x 1
  20. Undeadfred

    What I see is NC have weapons that under preform when measuring new players and over preform when comparing high BR players.

    Honestly it's expected. Low H-recoil High V-recoil weapons take some time to learn proper mouse compensation, but you can compensate for v-recoil you cannot compensate for alternate left right recoil ( the pattern on most TR, and many VS weapons).
    • Up x 2