Stats stats stats and stats ! NC hardmode version 2

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by CoreCombat, Oct 22, 2013.

  1. CDN_Wolvie

    Every bit of anecdotal evidence you are using by describing being a BAMF Doormat MAX is just a point of data on the bell curve that KPU sits at the peak of because it takes everyone's experience into account and tells us what the average experience with kills is, not just yours. I get that you are trying to bring the average up perhaps by telling other people how they can be as awesome as you but the statistics have already accounted for this, it shows the average of every C4'ed MAX, ever out distanced MAX, every reloading MAX, every out maneuvered MAX, every lone wolf MAX, every team player MAX, every near perfect aim MAX, every masterful tactician MAX ... every single scenario that every player has ever possibly had in the game is already accounted for.

    Besides, you really think for an entire year there haven't been other NC who have done what they could to bring the averages up? You think the NC like losing? I've seen some NC Outfits that train more than they play just to be the best of the best in the NC, to be SpecOp trainers bringing the masses average up and you're looking at the results in the averages - the other factions' Outfits did that training too and excelled beyond what the NC could on average. You're preaching to the choir here, we already knew what it took, we took it to the next level, and the results show ... well, that's what the WDS and API statistics show. The issue is systematic, its faction wide, across all the servers...

    Why do people keep coming with the anecdotal evidence? Link some statistics that you or someone else pulled, get some average user experience of each faction to compare and analyze that mofo already.
    • Up x 1
  2. Lamat

    And don't forget small magazines to boot!

    Yeah, who designed the NC like this and then they think: "lets also make another faction that has a high ROF, highest DPS, great hip fire, oh and lets throw in larger magazines too so they can do the most damage longer."
  3. Goretzu

    No, you just use Grinders. :p

    Dual Grinders (with pellets) are the best close range option for NC AI MAXs, it is just that there aren't many places in the game left where that useful.

    Where as a dual Mattock with slugs AI MAX has a much bigger range (albiet it much smaller than VS/TR AI MAXs).

    Slugs basically front load your damage for a DPS nerf, what this basically means is they are worse than pellets at very close range, better at close-medium range and then eventually worse again than pellets at longer range (although close/medium/long ranges are all very different from what you'd class them as for say a Mercy or Blue shift). There are also much more hit and miss in general.
  4. Revanmug

    Huh, you are pretty damn dumb if you believe I don't know how to use a lolzy scatters MAX. But I would say that you don't seem to know how to use a scatter at all, even less TR/VS MAX. Irony on you, I never said scatters were useless, I said they were inferior to any other MAX weapons. Maybe you should read other's post a little bit more?

    You are also fairly sad if you believe you cannot achievement the same kind of CQC result with VS/TR. They are obviously not as good under 10m but their power doesn't drop dead after it, making them just plain more powerfull than boring scatters. I'm just talking of MAX vs MAX here btw. Against infantry, the high burst/long reload, is never worth it over high DPS/Large magazine. Every MAX weapon have a low enough TTK to discard the need for High burst weaponry against any soft target.


    Good news people, we have an idiot telling us we don't know how use a MAX when he has abyssal stats accross the board with it. I'm so going to trust him on game balance now on! He also did an amazing 20 kill streaks! My hats to you! nobody can do that with any other kind of weapon!
  5. hostilechild

    You should stay in your tank or something. You have a total of 24hrs played in a max?!/5428039149551138465/classes
    my max stats!/5428010618038211489/classes
    guess is should play vehicles more just don't bother, more fun face to face fighting.
    And i never lone wolf, always have squadmates with me.
    Yes prenerf NC max was needed, but multiple nerfs no. blanket shotgun pellet/mag etc nerfs were overboard even for infantry.
    I personally would like to play max outside a room that can be grenade spammed or guarding a door. NC max pretty much has to run flak where TR/VS max can run kinetic.

    Play max some more then come back :eek:
  6. SolLeks

    I apologize for being a bit off topic, but this type or response always seems to backfire for me when I relate my air time to the other player who is making a very bad statement. I am interested to see how the others react to your statement (I fully think you are right and more experience means more knowledge and should be weighted more than the person with much much less, but people always tell me that it is irrelevant for some reason -_-)
    • Up x 1
  7. CDN_Wolvie

    The reason it is irrelevant is because when you graph everyone's ability to score points and kills together, it kinda looks like this example of a bell curve:


    His poor score and your high score are just points along the graph, the top of that curve is right about where the average is for EVERYONE.

    Now, if we overlay three bell curves from three factions averages as the peaks it would look sort of like this example:


    Even if you are the best of the best individual that the NC has to offer, you will never be better than the VS or TR best of the best because their higher average performance lifts them up higher than you with greater frequency and this all due to how well our weapons perform overall, the average already accounts for every possible out come from the worst performance to super awesome that could possibly be used with augments, teamwork, raw pop numbers, you name it.

    I personally think the overall average's difference between the VS and TR are not drastic, so the example of faction averages having their bell curves overlayed probably looks more like this:

    • Up x 2
  8. MilitiaMan

    I agree with this up to Max Rival, The Vanguard is a lumbering POS without Racer. I have both maxed out and do far better with Racer as the extra Excel works great to get out of bad situations and up hills.

    Have not tried Stealth since the nerf, though I use it on my Sundy and notice it stays alive a lot longer than with MG or BA.

    Kobalt + Thermal = Amazing defense with the TitanAP. Get a competent gunner that doesn't shoot at heavy armor and focus on infantry.

    The AP can kill tanks solo without assists from the secondary but sucks against infantry. With a competent Kobalt gunner I can do some stupid stuff and both of us get some sick kills.

    I thought Kobalt was bad also but than I ****** it out and it is an amazing secondary, so is the Walker.

    I hunt aircraft with AP, Walker, Reinforced Top Armor.
  9. SolLeks

    I do understand bell curve distributions and all, but having a lot more experience really should account for something. this is more looking from the perspective of experienced pilots across all 3 factions. what you're post was trying to explain was not really where my question is coming from...
  10. CDN_Wolvie

    I re-read your posts and ... sorry, what was your question? I didn't see anything ending in a question mark.

    Are you saying that only the opinions of the top 16%, 14%, 2% or 0.1% should matter to the Devs and fellow players? Basicly only balance for BR 100 and the top 100 players?

    Might want to consider how many NC players are actually in the top 100.

    In the entire game top 100 players - NC: 21 VS: 33 TR: 46

    If I could run a search based on just those with a ton of pilot hours, I would, sorry, not sure how I could do that and not even sure if it matters in the grand scheme of PS2 things.

    So if experience is what matters and should account for something more than just being a point on the bell curve that contributes to the average of a faction, be careful what you wish for because that would be saying the TR opinions account for more than the VS or NC, seeing as how they have the more quantifiable experience than the others.
  11. GhostAvatar

    • Up x 1
  12. CDN_Wolvie

    TR Totals (# of kills) are higher in all but one BR quarter.

    By 'solving for X', we can find out what U equals and the average can be lower because of the high number of unique users in each of those BR quarters.

    For example:
    NC 1-25; 9441.98/5.066 = ~1864 unique users
    TR 1-25; 10026.52/5.026 = ~1995 unique users
    VS 1-25; 10070.66/5.0889 = ~1979 unique users

    TR has more low BR players on the PS2 ledgers overall.

    Want to do the math on the other quarters as well?
  13. GhostAvatar

    So you're saying there is 1995 unique TR users in quarter 1. If you did that for every quarter and added the totals, it doesn't even come close to the reported total unique user. Somehow I don't think that is even close.

    But is is a nice way for you to check the calculations of the spreadsheet. Do that for each quarter, then compare them against the total KPU average also reported after doing the same. Do they even come close?

    Let me do it for you. Q1 - 1995, Q2 - 1990, Q3 - 1991, Q4 - 2019. Total average is 2025.

    How can the total be 2025, when not a single quarter goes over that number.

    The thing about averages is as a percentage they can make the total average higher compared to a baseline (in this case NC), if a single quarter is higher while failing on all other quarters. But it is mathematically impossible for the total average to be higher, if every single quarter average is lower.

    They need to release the raw data and also there calculation method that derived the final figures. Then the data and methods can be verified. Until then we have to take their word that the final figures are correct. And by the looks of it, they are not.

    Looking at what is provided, there seems to be many variations in the data that dont make sense (not just the TR). But that was the obvious one that stood out in the first place that made me question the validity of the data.
    • Up x 2
  14. BoomBoom4You

  15. Keiichi25

    Actually, the NC weapons are GREAT for CQC... But not all engagements are CQC. The MAX AI weapons, as an example, are rather 'short' duration combat, as the amount of ammo, and how quickly you can throw it out, makes it not be as 'durable' as the VS and TR AIs. Basically, their weapons are good for some short CQC fights, but that's it. If it is short or they have engineers behind them dropping ammo to extend the lines, but it is quite easy to exhaust gun ammo for the shotgun maxes and less so with the TR/VS AI gataling guns.
  16. GhostAvatar

    Just had a look at the rankings tab. Seems the author wants to rank each faction in each weapon category by total kills. Thing is, if you did the same for total user in each category you will get pretty much the same results. The only ones I noticed that broke that pattern was when the total users where so close it was insignificant and also AI MAX *cough* ZOE *cough*. This spreadsheet is so faction biased in trying to prove a certain viewpoint it is beyond a joke. This just reeks to me of trying to make the data fit the theory, instead of a trying to base a theory on the data.
  17. CDN_Wolvie

    Huh, then I was wrong when I assumed the value above the KPU on that table was a total kills in that BR quarter. Sorry about that. That will teach me to assume that this Grand Totals table is clearly labeled.

    So back to your original question then, which I clearly didn't find the correct answer to:

    Perhaps the answer lies on the Sheet Totals page:

    Grand Total page has a TR Total # of Kills of 13871244, does it equal the sheet totals added up?
    Sniper 1121797 + Explosive 193598 + Scout 101582 + Rocket 517151 + Lib 203162 + MAX 334115 + MAX 469863 + MAX 160672 + MAX 118167 + MAX 15215 + MAX 30675 + Tank 955360 + Carbine 2401368 + AR 1278912 + Lightning 345232 + SMG 758967 + Pistol 257399 + SG 499355 + Knife 151159 + LMG 2448847 + ESF 651627 + Harasser 499574 + HA 357447 = ...

    Yeah, it looks like each sheet is totaled from the data on each weapon that is pulled from each server...

    Looks like the raw data is there, you just gotta click view at the top then list, then click on the individual categories... Huh, interesting what I assumed was total kills was actually total KPU which then divided by the servers is the average individual weapon KPU of the TR across all the servers? Interesting... Huh, the Grand Totals page would probably be less confusing if the totaling up of all those KPU was just omitted, for me at least.

    I wish these servers were labeled but I could probably figure out which was which by the unique user numbers and comparing them against server status info, maybe...

    So, the Grand Total KPU for TR in every quarter in the is the average KPU of almost all their weapons?! Heh, some of these servers are really damn good with their weapons, loving seeing the variance here... Yeah, why did they even bother having the totals on the Grand Total sheet, hmm, that's probably just the way a spreed sheet has to work.

    These raw data for these aggregate numbers are really cool, each of these are these unique stories of success and woe around the world with each of these weapons... I think I am seeing each of why TR will say they suck on a server somewhere and then other places they are frakin awesome.

    Yeah, I stand by what I said, you definitely want to take the higher averaging weapons, damn...

    Don't mind me, if you bothered to read this, this is just me trying to head down the API rabbit hole, later!
  18. CDN_Wolvie

  19. Merli0n

    There is no breakdown by server, the raw data is from each day, across all servers.
    • Up x 1
  20. CDN_Wolvie

    Thanks :)