Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by CoreCombat, Sep 13, 2013.

  1. NoctD

    Stats don't tell you how bad the NC players are in general and how disorganized they might be. Or do they?

    Actually - the Shrike/Crow/Hawk is proof positive of the NC lacking skills and organization... these are basically identical to their TR/VS equivalents except in aesthetics only. And the NC lags in all 3!

    Yup - there you have it - get organized and learn to play better.

    Look at tank secondaries non faction specific. Same weapons. TR lags behind here, because they hardly bother getting a proper gunner. The average TR secondary gunner is likely to fire away at everything/anything even stuff they can't do much against. TR has the crappiest secondary gunners, because they don't value 2/2 crewing MBTs, something which the VS has trained since the beginning and the NC has gotten very good at.

    And why did you focus all those stats on the wrong things? The NC has one area that needs addressing the most - AI MAX. Its a tricky one to get right given shotgun arms go from total OP to total UP very easily and are situational to begin with.

    You quote stats yet you can't even interpret them properly. Are you just another NC bad?
    • Up x 1
  2. Aegie

    Exactly, and ADS is pretty garbage in this game compared to hipfire lolmode where you have 100% accurate sights (unlike in ADS) information on the size of the COF (unlike in ADS) and a shoot when this turns red lolmode (also not available in ADS). Add to this the inherent FOV reduction while ADS and the huge movement penalty and yeah it starts to make some sense.

    Plus, all the other factors in the game that heavily favor CQC spray and pray over ADS and it all starts to make sense.

    Being slightly more accurate for the first shot while standing still and reducing your FOV is not really much of perk in a FPS where the information is served in such a way that it is pretty much always to your advantage to keep moving since we are all shooting at ghosts.

    These things combined with the fact that high ROF has many inherent advantages compared to high damage per shot and it starts to make a lot more sense why NC tends to be more difficult.
    • Up x 3
  3. Sebastien

    It's all down hill from here.
    • Up x 3
  4. axiom537

    Very nice work. I also believe much of the disparity is created by the Striker. Amazingly it is killing nearly twice as much as the Phoenix and 4X the lancer and that does not even take into consideration its area denial ability, which forces vehicles to immediately respond to locks, ie hide behind cover or use flairs or smoke and evade.

    While I believe the current change in the way Lock-On Weapons function, ie maintaining lock will add a SLIGHT skill component to ALL lock-on weapons, They still need to address range and the damage disparity between the striker and its identical NS counterpart the Annihilator. Or better yet remove its lock-on function and give it a more unique function.
    • Up x 1
  5. NoctD

    Its all downhill from anyone starting a topic that NC is hardmode.

    I suggest focusing on the stuff that really needs fixing. And learning to use your assets.

    A properly organized large NC Vanguard column with support can easily do what Vanu were doing early game with Mags and are near unstoppable!
  6. Lamat

    NC small arms should have a higher dps accounting for having to burst fire. Otherwise you take an already lower dps and reduce it even more just to be able to land shots, having less ammo to boot. They should reward skill landing those "hard hitting" shots.
    • Up x 3
  7. CoreCombat

    This isn't my work, I only merely reposted what was already posted before. Those 3 in the preface should get all the thanks, not me.
  8. GoogleIntern2013


    TR OP all day
  9. Aegie

    Anecdotal evidence = worthless.
  10. reticentbassist

    I would disagree on this point. I think that if you watch the streams of the best players and outfits you will find that they do most of their work in ADS at short/mid range, and rack up the kills not by spray and pray, but my making good decisions, picking good spots, and using excellent teamwork.

    Now, there will always be those moments when you are running around and suddenly run into an enemy, and are kinda forced into a spray and pray situation, in which case, the NC weapons might have a disadvantage. But in my experience, and I believe in the experienced of every top player and any semi-organized squad, the best results are achieved when fire lanes are observed, positions are secured carefully and methodically, and team work is respected.

    The daily meat grind happens because too few players take a moment to analyze the situation and choose a tactical advantage, rather than just running out of spawn into the crossfire and hoping to get 1 kill before they die.
    • Up x 2
  11. Chowley

    I would love to see the infantry stats. Surprised to hear its more balanced really.
  12. CoreCombat

    This is true across all factions really . Even if you watch top end players that stream, it might " seem" as if they're running into a situation without thinking. But really they've done most of the analysis/ thinking before hand because its already done on instinct since they've been doing that every time they play. You won't see Mpal grabbing a sniper rifle while heading to attack point A at Crossroads or itzmurda grabbing a NC max for open field combat. Weapons that have effective combat ranges across multiple play-styles, but are not godly in one range or unit > weapons that only godly in one situation but good for one playstyle .
  13. Angry Scientist

    I just...I just love it when people can march into a thread and say, with a straight face, 'this whole faction is just terrible. Play better'. When they forget that when you take a group of players and disperse them, it's meant to carry an equality.

    This all isn't just NC. We have alts, we play other factions. Or other factions play us. A collection of data, a collection of a large number of players. It's semi random, which may give a bias, but that bias being everyone playing NC doesn't know how to? Honestly? Is it that anyone joining the NC suddenly forgets everything they learned? That our higher BRs are incapable of either learning, teaching, or leading by example? That ineptitude is our faction strength, no matter what your background in FPS, tactics, or even the same game but a different faction?

    Statistics can be a great way to lie for any cause by only showing a part of the picture, but we are seeing a consistent image here. The NC under-perform. This does not mean we 'suck' or 'can not fight', but it's telling.

    I will join those that say that the NC has good weaponry when used in the right situation. That is what you can refer to as balance. A strength in one area while making a sacrifice in another. However, that balance does not work if you are the only one doing it. Just a thought.
    • Up x 9
  14. CoreCombat

    Please give thanks to Cupboy / (PSU) maradine / (Psu) Aarth .

    I only combine all the data for one or two forum posts. IF anything THEY should be the ones that everyone should be thanking for those data pulls.
  15. Aegie

    And the streams from great players who point out that the fact you are always shooting at where someone used to be means that it is almost always to your advantage to be moving?

    Reducing your FOV and standing still are generally not the greatest ideas in FPS especially one as big as PS2. Standing still is about the best way to become sniper bait and you really just open yourself up to easy headshots.

    Even still, movement penalties in ADS (what are the NC weapons with ADS movement bonuses?) combined with inaccurate ADS sights when you do move while ADS... oh yeah and the ridiculous damage degradation...

    You do not think there is any bias towards CQC spray and pray, even with the majority of cap points being in small rooms or towers, and actually think it is the other way around despite all the advantages given to hipfire then I guess we can agree to disagree. At least you are respectful about it- cheers.
  16. SolLeks

    I just have to say, but with the sample size of the data given (IE everyone who played for the 5 day time) make the argument of 'NC are just bad' wrong? Every faction has good and bad players, given enough data, that gets normalized.

    Although on the flip side, if the NC have less 'good' players, why would that be? Is it because most good players find the NC weapons to be bad so they don't play NC? Is it because good players don't want to associate with the 'Merica' thing?

    Every faction is disorganized execpt for the main outfits. no faction is more or less organized by such a large margin.
    • Up x 2
  17. Goretzu

    I'm not sure it was the posting so much as the defence of the stats, maybe.
  18. Nepau

    Going to agree that as you watch good players you will notice playstyle comes into affect (god knows I know when I screwed up and died because I went into a fight wrong).

    Stats are interesting, I do think it has some good points to descuss, even though we do have a few things that we can't account for by pure stats.

    Just as an example, on Connery for a while the TR felt like they were rather weak (note no weapon changes during this observation), but they started getting more and more orginized, to the point where its not uncommon to have them come in with Air swarms or multiple gal drops. Currently it feels from my obervation that the NC on my server are lacking much orginization, though I could be wrong.

    We just need to remember that these stats are a Great starting point for a descussion on balance, but nether them or "observations" are going to always tell the whole picture.
  19. reticentbassist

    I think that in many situations the final push towards a cap point can become a spray and pray situation. But I do not believe that is always the case; there are many fun and rewarding firefights that take place leading up to the necessary CQC slug fest.

    I also think that play style can influence one's bias towards mid range firefights and CQC slug fests. I prefer to engage at mid range, and I do not own a shotgun, so my bias is to seek out those kinds of fights. Others prefer the "Unreal" style of FPS, they have Auraxium with all of their shotguns and SMG's, and they seek out those fights.

    Since every battle in the game is player generated, players can always choose to leave a battle which does not meet their expectations or fit their style. I would encourage you, if you feel that spray and pray is becoming the hallmark of the game, to actively seek out fights which do not feel like a spray and pray scenario.

    I am not calling into question your experience with the game, but since I don't know you, I am just wondering if you have considered some of those points.
  20. Cab00se187

    It's not that it's an issue, I think it has more to do with Sony getting called out for balance issues and having pointed at their face