Standardized Capture Times

Discussion in 'Test Server: Discussion' started by Giggily, Apr 8, 2013.

  1. Giggily

    So I've had an hour or two to mess around on the test server this afternoon, and while I think the changes to the map are pretty fantastic and will do wonders for the game's flow, one thing that stood out to me as being a bit of a sore issue were the standardized base capture times.

    That is, the squad I was in decided to attack Allatum from TI Alloys, which went fine until we got to Allatum Botany, at which point it really sunk in that even these exterior outposts have full capture times. One issue that I could see springing up in the near future is that, in order for a faction to capture a larger facility they have to capture at least one of these outposts, which makes any facility capture basically two bases worth of battles. That's an awfully long time.

    One thing I would definitely like to see changed would be a reduction in the time that it takes to capture any one base, outpost or facility. As is, I feel like battles could get pretty stagnated by the long outpost cap times, with factions having a lot of difficulty staying on a capture point long enough before the attackers would be able to push them out.

    Does anyone else have any thoughts or comments on the new capture times?
    • Up x 4
  2. Ronin Oni

    Yah.... idling waiting 10-15 minutes on flips has always been the worst part of PS2 IMO.

    I used to occupy time skirmishing at the influence bases for the facilities until the cap time go close, then I'd race in to get the facility cap points.... but that's not really part of the game now (thankfully... always felt pretty pointless).

    Seems to me that once a battle is decided and you've forced opposition from a base, that something should happen to expedite the cap process.
    • Up x 2
  3. UrMom306

    hmm i'll have to give it a test but i see your point, but to be the devil's advocate having all the bases and outposts have the same cap time it makes the larger bases harder to capture, which puts more emphasis on the importance of having the larger bases. It also gives the defenders time to defend better. I dunno we'll have to see how it plays out once more people get on the server.
    • Up x 1
  4. Malsvir Vishe

    I do think that might be a problem, with the outpost having a standard capture time, but I think of it in a different way. With enough people trying to defend, there could be massive battles at all the outposts and there could be really heated battles between the attackers and defenders, possibly moreso than with the current mechanics because the quick(er) capture time on the normal build allows the outpost to flip relatively quickly. Now, you'll probably need coordination with sundies to get in there and attack the point while the defenders try to pull it out of your grasp.

    What I'm basically saying is that I think there will be a lot more action and strategy involved with these cap times, but I wouldn't be against them making them slightly faster for the small satellites on the bio labs, amp stations, and tech plants.
  5. LordMondando

    Whilst its obviously not 'there'. As i've noted elsewhere, my worry is with the new system, you make the 'steamroller' effect of a far larger force far more pronuched.

    slow cap times, were one of the few things keeping the 50% tr population from just rolling over everything.

    something novel is needed here.
    • Up x 1
  6. Malsvir Vishe

    Well, I think one good thing about this system is that it requires defending or attacking through all lanes unless you want to risk being cut off. That in itself could start to encourage base defense (though defending a base giving better-than-current rewards would help.)
  7. LordMondando

    My worry is less about encouraging base defence, as literally only 6 possible live options will exist for players on a map at anyone time.

    More convincing people that staying and defending if the numbers are not equal or in their favour is a fun use of their time.

    They have added a bunch of walls and turrets, but they don't particularly seem to 'do it' at present.

    Think its more a case for level design, less for tweaking the skinner box.
    • Up x 1
  8. notyourbuddy

    These longer cap times were inflicted upon the live server like a week ago (at least on Mattherson). I thought they actually made defense more viable and led to some pretty epic defensive stands and momentum shifts at many bases that usually aren't very defensible, but when you attacked a base where the enemy had no interest in defending.. my god... 20 minutes of boredom set in.

    Maybe its just unintentional and they haven't gotten around to adjusting cap times yet.
  9. ScrapyardBob

    I'm not a fan of standardized cap timers.

    - Small facilities should be faster to cap then larger facilities.
    - Every medium/large size facility should have multiple capture points.
    - Your control over capture points should have an effect on capture times.

    I despise major facilities that only have a single 6/6 capture point. By the time you get to it and stack people on it, the battle is generally over and you have the defenders spawn camped. In contract, facilities with multiple capture points usually see-saw back and forth a lot until one side gains the upper hand.

    Big facilities should all have (5) or even (6) capture points ranging in size from 4/4 to 6/6. This would give point totals of 20-25. If you hold 100% (and can stack 20-25 people on all the points), then you should get the full-speed capture timer. Which might cut as much as 2/3 off the capture timer compared to doing a minimum-effort capture.

    (Medium facilities should have point totals of 10-15, small facilities should be in the 4-6 range.)

    In the case of a 20-25 point facility, you should need to stack at least 20% of the total (rounded down) people on points to move the bar. And if the defender is willing to stack people on points, you would need more people. In a 20pt facility, this means you have to put 4 more people on points then the defender (5 for a 25 point facility). So you might hold a 6/6, 5/5 and 5/5 while the defender only has a pair of 4/4 points. The battle will be yours (16 pts vs 8 pts), but if you go and take those last two 4/4 points you can cut the time drastically.

    Small facilities might have a 3 minute minimum and a 5 minute maximum (small change in speed). Mediums might be 5-8 minutes, large might be 6-18 minutes (6 minimum, 18 maximum).
    • Up x 11
  10. Kon

    i still think having people on base objectives should adjust the capture time, even if its effect was halved and the number doubled ie needing 12 people on a control point to have the same effect that 6 currently does, but also that people with adjacency to the contested hex can see the status of the control point and the number of people on it from the map interface..
  11. carbonite

    If standardized cap times are going to be the new permanent system than a couple things should. The times for capture should scale with the size of the hex. Small hexes capture fast, medium hexes capture slower, and large hexes capture slowest.

    Furthermore, whether or not players should be required to stand on the point to capture the facility should be tested. Personally I think players should be able to run in capture the point then return out to battle if they want.

    To address the issue that we are still having - spawn camping - more objectives need to be added to the bases or hexes other than capture the control point. For no one should have to sit around and baby sit the point, and no body should get spawn camped.

    I actually agree with some of your suggestions.
    • Up x 1
  12. nubery

    This needs to be its own thread. Fix it.
  13. Aaron

    Well, they could make standard capture times go much faster, but allow defenders to reset the total capture progress by hacking the point. That way resecure teams could make quick decisive strikes to defend, and could fight against larger zergs. Because trying to stay on the the point against a large zerg is kinda hopeless.
  14. PsychoBat

    How about adding a secondary objective to base (not sure if a generator would fit but the idea is the same) that needs to be completed for capture time to shorten. If there are no defenders in the base, the attackers can take the objective and not have to sit around too long. If there are defenders, it should be extremely easy for them to hold that objective so cap time is full length. In that case attackers have something to do as well as there's someone to fight against.

    It would also add more secondary objectives to bases which in my opinion are much needed.
  15. Kon

    Push E to Hack Control Console Returning i suppose, lets make ti take 2 times longer to flip a point meybe even longer than that let infils certs apply to hacking them, and then voice overs for Virus Detected in main Control Console ( yeah)
  16. Deathcapt

    I think I really like, this, because honestly, as long as the point is flipping back and forth, IMO the fight isnt' over. If the attackers hold the point for 2 - 3 minutes (small outpost) 5 - 10 mintues largers outpost, then there's clearly no fight left. Especially at bigger facilities, If 1 factions storms and captures a facility, give them the facility. Don't make them arbitrarity stand around waiting forever for defenders to maybe show up, just flip the base. If that makes bases "too easy" to attack, then build better walls.