Sorry But I Hate The KillCam

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by BamaRage, Aug 28, 2019.

  1. DarkStarAnubis

    The Kill Cam punishes laziness/greediness so makes better players but in doing that, provides unfair advantage.

    Today I was playing Medic and was OHKed by an Infiltrator. The Kill cam showed he was on top of an antenna tower, the kind of place you reach (as Infiltrator) only if there is a beacon or you jump from an aircraft.

    I was rezzed by a nearby Medic, looked at the antenna, shot a burst and killed the poor guy, who was cloaked hoping to reap other kills.
  2. Campagne

    It rewards lazy victims and situationally blind players.

    The infiltrator was punished because he chose a small spot. He wasn't getting back up there any time soon and couldn't really move around or get down easily. The spot would have been pretty good if you weren't just shown the location, as you'd have to look for him giving him time to kill again and/or drop down.

    He was not lazy if he actively searched for a position which is difficult to reach and would not be greedy in wanting more than a single kill from said difficult-to-reach location. What is lazy is relying on a camera to show the player his killer's exact location.

    His time and effort were for naught. Neither greedy nor lazy, just screwed by a faulty system.
    • Up x 3
  3. restaurant

  4. FateJH

    Demanding even one mandated kill to justify any sort of effort is greed. Saying that, "With this one success, everything else must fall into line," is lacking in motivation. Getting into just one good position should not be the end of the battle; there must be more to it; now, he must keep going after that. Saying that all effort must be rewarded is writing an outcome long before anything else has happened and that is the true insult to the pride called "effort." If you could not expend a significant amount of time working towards a goal but still fail, the game would be that less interesting.
    The Pokemon has spoken.
  5. Campagne

    The kill is not "mandated," it's just a practical guarantee from an elevated stealth position with a weapon capable of instant or extremely rapid kills. One would just expect to get at least one kill purely because of how easy it would be.

    Should a player's efforts not be rewarded? As I've said a few times already, this killer cam punished playstyles that require more effort while not affecting the very low effort styles. I'm not saying effort should equal victory but there ought to be something to show for it. A practically guaranteed kill from stealth is good but it's not worth a great effort when there are many ways to get guaranteed kills without much thought or planning.

    Regardless, herein lies the problem as I see it. Significant effort was expended and failure was successfully achieved. But it was not because of the shortcomings of the shooter's aim or planning nor was it due to the victim's situational awareness or inhuman response times, but purely because the game sold the infiltrator out to the very first person he shot and killed in perfect execution. The infil did nearly everything right, only thing he could have done was pick a spot which he could move around a little more.

    What would be far less interesting is a game in which there is exactly one type of effective playstyle: firepower. Stealth, maneuvering, positioning and flanking, all inferior to simply pressing F with an auto-shotgun, or pulling a MAX, or HE tank, or A2G ESF or lib, or any such thing. And indeed, what could be less interesting than effort being a significant time sink without reward? :p
  6. Kalabaster1

    Totally agree. It often takes a lot of time to get into the base right up close and personal to the enemy faction in a good position where enemy are literally running around all you. Take out one and it is game over, you can't just move to another location as that movement can be spotted - cloaked or not - by everyone and their dog as they are that close.
  7. TomoB

    Don't know about others but I don't have any feelings of achievement in situations like those when my kill has been made possible by some kind of crutch aid intended for blind and deaf amebas. It was the same thing when Bad Company 2 introduced "spot doritos" and now it has become the norm in most games. At least that infil saw some effort to get into that position so he should be rewarded by couple of kills before being detected and killed. But apparently the only correct playstyle is to run around like headless ADHD chicken in Unreal Tournament arena and not stop even for a few seconds or it's despicable camping.
  8. DarkStarAnubis

    That's why I said the Kill Cam provides unfair advantage by pointing exactly where the enemy is.

    Without the Kill Cam, I would have simply carried on because I had no idea about the enemy location (silenced rifle).
  9. DarkStarAnubis

  10. Kalabaster1

    OK give my position away - but give me an overshield and all the other protection and armour that non-stealth players have.

  11. DarkStarAnubis

    Player efforts should be rewarded of course, but if I know by having spent 2000 hours playing that by jumping on that tree I can then move on that ledge and from there reach that spot giving me a good angle to get easy cheesy kills, where is the effort (or skills) to be rewarded ?

    I would like to reward an HA with a pitiful 0.5 KD who get killed countless times but sustain attacks and helps to breach a building than rewarding someone taking pot-shots with an OHK weapon from the safety of high ground and a cloak, who is either lazy or greedy or lacks the common sense (not even the situational awareness!) to move 0.5 meters aside from the place he got the last kill.

    Without the Kill Cam he would have survived and got a couple more kills maybe (the base was being overrun anyway), but he wasn't a great sniper in the first place otherwise he would have moved and/or checked.

    That player maybe next time will move a little bit or check whether his victim is coming back for him as 99% of half-decent players would do to get rid of an high threat. If he learns he will be a better one, more dangerous to his foes. In that, the Kill Cam has helped him.

    To me, the Kill Cam has provided the unfair advantage I mentioned at the beginning. I got a cheesy kill.
  12. TRspy007

    It is weird on my eyes. A TOGGLE BUTTON, PLEASE DEVS!

    Just let us turn it on and off. Skilled players can already analyze how they died and I don't think that killcams can even be used for that since they're so weird. IDk i don't like it.
    • Up x 1
  13. Campagne

    Because you would have taken the time to explore the environment and learn how to access certain places the majority of players are seemingly incapable of finding. The enemy must lack the skills to find and kill you if you are to get those easy kills. There is a difference in skill levels which allows for this. Shoot at someone who knows the spot or has basic sensory perception and you will be found and killed. (Or just shoot and kill any old rando and lose the position anyway.)

    Rewards must be earned. Simply smashing one's head into a wall should not reward the player upon a spot of luck producing a crack or chip in the paint. If the person behind the computer gets a feeling of reward for finally making progress then great, but simply trying and failing without learning from mistakes or thinking of ways to alter the situation does not warrant rewarding in my opinion. And again, the only snipers whom are lazy or greedy are not the ones getting all the rewards. Lazy and greedy make for easy targets and will fall to the first enemy that sees them.

    And further once again, there's just not really very much room to move up on those towers and even if he did the kill cam would have just shown you where he moved to. I think this just highlights the need for stealth with the stealth class. A great sniper can get away with holding down one spot for a while because he can kill everyone that comes close while aiming and firing fast enough to not be pinned down or hit by counter-snipers while decloaking. The player who lacks the skill in aiming needs the time to sit and aim on reliable targets and will not achieve anything if they can't use strong positions and stealth (I.E. other skills besides aim).

    The poor guy will probably have no idea he ought to move as the kill cam he saw didn't show him that. Also as above he'd have had so little room to move you'd still see where he was as the cam lingered on him. The cam only removed the skills required to find him, it has done nothing but penalize him through no fault of his own. Also part II most players probably wouldn't care or wouldn't be able to reach the same location(s) or areas where they'd have line of sight to his last-known location. Don't act with revenge, that usually don't work out. Go about as one would and watch for him and his spots but don't go out of the way for a lucky shot.

    In my opinion, a "cheesy" kill is one that was made without skill, effort, or risk, or at least not a significant amount of any of the three. It takes time and thought to get into that position to compensate for the difficulty of aiming. Cheesy in my mind is the dead horse I've been beating incredibly overpowered auto-shotgun-heavy-assault combo that few players seem to utilize. It's very easy, requires very little in the way of thought or positioning, and is one of if not the lowest risk infantry playstyle I can possibly think of. More rewarding than even the best sniper with zero requirements.
  14. VSNCTR

    Yes, I Hate the KillCam Too, that's readly sucks for stealth players, so unfair!!!o_O
    • Up x 1
  15. Moonheart

    I think you still don't understand: KDR does NOTHING for a player.
    He does get you more certs, nor give you more usefulness on the battlefield.

    SPM is the only relevant mesure of a class efficiency, and stalkers are on the lower bottom of SPM rankings.

    The death cam makes it world because it forces the stalkers to move after each kill, and not after each time they got spotted.
    And not mode by 0.5m as some people believe, but a lot more, to avoid bullet spray and flashligth scanning.

    Add to this that each time you move you increase the chances to be spotted, and it is a huge blow in stalker's already quite low SPM efficiency
    • Up x 1
  16. Moonheart

    Nope, you can climb there without it, but the skill and time it takes makes that nobody usualy bother.
    That guy was probably killed by the death cam after more than 10 minutes climbing it... that's how he was rewarded for his efforts
    • Up x 2
  17. DarkStarAnubis

    Oh well, you never stop to learn in PS2! Thanks for explaining this, I had no clue on Earth it was possible :)
  18. Moonheart

    One name: CuteBeaver
  19. Maxron306

    Well, currently killcam kinda kills long range sniping.

    You take time climbing the Everest to get the best spot.
    You change spots after each shot to keep the stealth.
    You use silencer sacrificing the damage.
    You dont use cloak since it is kinda noisy.
    You dont even use the beacon since it will also uncover your position.
    And you can only shoot very few stationary targets, since aiming for moving ones from 150-300 meters is pretty useless.
    No camping the terminals involved.

    And yet you get fked after the first kill, because somebody is too lazy to use brains and find you, but is stubborn enough to wipe you out with all firepower he has.
    • Up x 1
  20. N0tl0c

    I wish that DBG sent out surveys. Also its a pain in the butt to try and get my email fixed so I can send in a customer service report on why I canceled my year long reacquiring membership. I really wish they would as why so I dont come have to come here. I can play for several years worth of memberships but cant get a CS rep to help me fix my password with out making another account.

    If a mod can pass this up that would be great.

    Kill Cam is another bad change that no one asked for or wanted but the devs think they know better. I would have been upset but wouldn't have canceled my membership if it wasnt for "We've heard your concerns regarding the impact this change will have on stealth oriented gameplay, and will keep those concerns in mind as we evaluate the feature in Live play"
    That statement was the finally straw. If the devs want to ignore players and talk down to us again and again then they can do so with out me paying them to do so. They keep talking about how they hear us but they always ignore us every single time.

    "We believe this new camera will help players achieve a better understanding of where attacks are coming from, and ease frustration caused by deaths that feel abrupt or unfair" Is also very upsetting to me because it shows the only reason is misguided and not about making the game better but purposefully worsening it to make the game more casual. The no kill cam was one of this games great features.

    Im to tired of the way the devs are communicating. Them communicating is good and alot ot ask for from devs now but trying to talk around the issue is so upsetting. They act like they know better even after all the evidence showing that they messed up and lost players like with CAI. The way they spoke about the Kill Cam just shows that they arent even willing to actually listen to player feedback or discuss it.

    Also additional reason was PSA and going TPP. I was going to get PSA untill they went TPP. My membership was for PS2 or PS2 like games be it PS3 or old PSA. Im not going to further fund PSA development especially when that dev team is haivng the same design change direction issue as PS2 adding kill cam. Just a small additional reason for canceling.

    I canceled because the Devs are out of touch with the playerbase and I dont see them ever getting back in touch or listening to reason. They refuse to have actual discussions and certain devs just respawn with smug replies to reasonable arguments because they will not even entertain the players feedback. So I sadly cut my losses on the PS franchise.
    • Up x 1

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