SOE Why Did These Liberator Changes Go Live So Soon?

Hopefully SOE, one of you mods or someone will see this and respond because I'm speaking directly to you right now.

Why did these changes go live. I think I speak for most Liberator pilots when I say that I've been looking forward to this update for a LONG time. We were hoping we'd get some new stuff to play with, some re-balancing, and above all we were hoping you'd actually... I don't know... LISTEN to what we had to say about what you created before you put them live.

Right now you Live just got update with the changes that have been on PTS without ANY changes. I don't know of anyone who was happy with what was on PTS. The things like AB changes were good, but Composite armor was changed in all the wrong ways. You basically made Daltons worthless. Shredder will be a much more reliable all around choice if you run with Composite Armor on your Liberator.

So... why were you in such a hurry to get this out and why did you take no feedback from players. You've been doing better recently and some of the recent updates have been awesome, it feels like you've really been listening and giving people more what they're asking for. So... why this dramatic shift in the opposite direction.

I've got to say I'm honestly a bit ******** about this. I was one of those people looking forward to this update for months and the AB changes and Racer changes are really the only thing I'm happy about. The only reason I'll be getting the new weapons is to test them and put out a video on them. They don't appeal to me and I don't see them adding much to the gameplay.

So, sorry for how long winded this is. But, I'd really like to hear some of your logic and it would mean a lot to me to get an official SOE response about this because this update really did a number on my belief in you guys(devs).

I dont get it either, when the uptade was live on PTS yesterday i expecetd the Lib patch to come next week. There was no need to rush it. But its similar with the new deathscreen. It got downvoted but was still pushed trough.

well yeah, the shredder (as the default weapon) is supposed to be the all round weapon, while the dalton is the anti armor specialisation. what's your point exactly?

Could you please explain why you feel this way? Genuinely curious on this one.

Shredder does Anti-Armor just as well as Dalton

Worthless may have been an over exaggeration. But, let me pain you a word picture.
First run I'm solo. My setup is;
High-G, Fire Sup, Comp Armor, Tankbuster, Shredder, Hyena's.
Run into a 3/3 Liberator with Dalton. In the ensuing fight they land 3 daltons and some Tankbuster, while I land Tankbuster and Shredder. I come away from the fight with about 30% health and they come away dead.

The Dalton was really good at that epic burstfire damage against liberator up close and the occasionally lucky long range shot on an ESF.
In the Anti-Infantry category they were similar with the Shredder being better overall.
In the Anti-Armor category they were similar and each had their little advantages.
In the Anti-Air category the Shredder was better against MOST ESF's and the Dalton had a close range advantage against Libs since you could 2 shot them. That advantage is now gone. At the moment I see no reason to run a Dalton Liberator.

Just my own thoughts, quickly (j/k, I can't do quick):

Was I excited when I heard about a Lib update? Hell yes.

Was I excited when I heard it was on PTS yesterday? Absolutely, even though I don't bother with PTS.

Was I excited when I heard it was being patched to live today? HELL NO.

We wanted a new toy or two. What did we get?
A mediocre nosegun w/ freelook.
A ****** Zephyr clone with worse accuracy and projectile velocity. You know, the two biggest complaints about the Zephyr (ignoring those on the recieving end). Instead of trying to fix or compensate for them, SOE goes and gives us a new weapon that is worse in almost every way. 100m/s? My damn spring-loaded airsoft rifle shoots faster than that, lol...
Lock-on Missile Tail Gun. This one is a slap in the teeth. What's the one thing most pilots agree on? Enough with the low-skill lock-on weapons, there are enough already. I just hope Galaxies get something similar, so we can all be on the same equal, ****** footing.

I love the AB changes. I'm excited for the Racer changes, even though it seems absurdly fast now. I'm glad Libs and Gals both got their stealth cert improved, even though almost no one uses stealth, then or now.

Oh yeah, Composite Armor. Hey, SOE, I just wanted to thank you all for making it painfully obvious you learned NOTHING from the Harasser fiasco. Since you still don't get it, let me clue you in. If your stock vehicle isn't a tank (literally and figuratively), increasing mitigations is almost always the best way to increase survivability. Enough with the catch-all defense certs. This is what ruined the Harasser, something that seems lost, considering CompArmor still exists as a cert sink for Harassers, and Liberators are now going to go through the same buff/nerf cycle.

Honestly, I like the Dalton change. The 2HKO to 2-hit critical damage bit. The addition of a Dalton resistance to CompArmor is one of the dumbest parts of this update. This is yet another example of rolling out concurrent buffs/nerfs, apparently without any consideration for their interaction. I think I should just be happy you guys make games, instead of chemicals or something where you could actually hurt people. That's how dumb this change seems, especially rushing it to live instead of waiting for feedback.

Wycliff, we can agree to disagree, but in the hands of the majority in this game, the Shredder was always way more reliable. The problem, IMO, is that there isn't really another option now. Someone posted and said the Duster 2-shots Libs the other day. Whether that is true or not, I was excited. Then, I noticed the projectile velocity is 100m/s.

/end rant.

As for your video/opinion Wycliff, I agree and disagree. NAR is a crutch, one that most will be unwilling to surrender. The meta-game will undoubtedly shift, but I think it's going to be much slower than we would normally expect. The only offset to this idea is the thought that many people that are hardcore about their Liberators, and still play the game, already have most/all of these unlocks. We can change freely between anything.People new to Libs are going to struggle to ID what they need/want for their kit, and are going to get even more frustrated by those who can change freely between whatever FOTM we are using following the upcoming nerf/buff rotation we're about to go through.

I got distracted, I forget what else I was gonna say.

Edit, I was gonna say, I think the Dalton is essentially an AV Tank Sniper now. Sit at 800m, 3x Zoom, pilot takes a nap. I know the Lib vs. Lib game is screwed now, but this is a huge boon to ESFs who are tired of getting Dalton'd, because there simply won't be tons of Daltons out hunting them anymore.

First part, pretty much EXACTLY my state of mine.

Yeah, the Shredder does more reliable damage but I was always a fan of the burst of the Dalton and I could usually take out all but the best Shredder crews with relative ease unless they had a huge advantage. Now, a comp armor shredder libs is just lulz against a Dalton lib. I know that when I was testing the Duster earlier in the PTS it did hardly any damage to Libs. I don't know what it does now, but the 100m/s velocity means it'll never be a good AA weapon which I'm OK with.

I've already abandoned NAR in the dust. I used it for the convenience and because nothing else was worth losing that convenience for. I started flying using Stealth so repairing a lot isn't a big deal for me. Besides, you can use Fire Supp as NAR anyways xD.

My new loadout for ultimate fun is Tankbuster, Shredder, Hyenas with Fire Supp and Comp armor. I descended on a group of Prowler, probably took about 7 AP shots during the fight. Killed all 3 and sailed away into the sunset. Comp armor is ridiculous right now. Anyone who doesn't give up NAR for it is just silly.

Shredder and Hyena's team up for an unbeatable combo against air at close to mid range. ESF's literally melt like they got dalton'd. The air game is just going to be in a brutal state of flux for the next week or two while SOE tried to sort all this out. I don't think they even understand how much work they've created for themselves by not just leaving this on test for another week or two.

Another way you can see this is rushed is that new weapons have tank ranged thermals at 180 meters and not air range 350 meters thermals. My pilot also swears they changed something about High-G airframe for the worse.

As for comp armor. I do not like these changes. It gives buff to liberators unusual counters and not their natural counters. It feels just as wrong as adding flak resistance on comp armor for the harasser. Sure a harasser will run into a skyguard once a while but its not the harassers main counter. Remove tank round, dalton and light tank round resistance. Buff flak resistance more and add lockon resistance instead. Being hit by tank rounds are something you grow out of as you become more experienced in lib or you accept the times you do get hit because you took the risk or the tank did play well. The current change also pushed on "go comp and shredder or go dead", narrowing the choices of loadouts and screwing up lib vs lib balance.

I've yet to form an opinion on the new nosegun and hyena. The duster with its current stats is just a very crappy Zepher. As for Zepher, the lowered reload speed stated in PTS patch notes are nowhere to been seen live.

I also looked forward to the lib changes. The changes came to test server late Monday (Tuesday my time). I spent one hour Tuesday and another hour yesterday trying lib stuff out. I was hoping to get the opportunity this weekend on PTS in the Cobalt vs Ceres fight to try it and write something about it. But no, this got dumped on us way before it's ready.

I think they do realize and I think the reason it was pushed is because they wouldn't get a true test on test.

FOTM is enhanced on test because people go there to try the new changed things. You'll be hard pressed to mimic the the live server environment. So you'll get lib pilots, people curious about liberators, and small scale controlled tests, but will you get all the standard liberator threats to log on and be present like they are in live? I doubt it.

So I'm hoping it'll settle in a week or two on live, they'll get some good data, and hopefully make adjustments. I know they don't have a good history of making timely adjustments, but this is also the first time they've done a PTS->live like this.

If it turns out everything is OP as hell and stays that way for months only to be overnerfed I'll be right there with everyone else.

No, I understand that you can't get everything perfect on test. BUT, they can at least attempt to get a lot closer than this. What's the point of having a test server if you're not going to let people... test?

there is 2 very fast and effective ways to get rid of libs now, one is to tank bust him, dont worry if you miss, he can shoot 5 dalton shots with 100% accuracy and you'll win anyway, second one - just equip shredder, both require composite armor.

Because they want your money

I can only assume that there are internal deadlines they have to meet for putting OP toys on the market.

money

I was hoping they'd make Liberator more of a bomber instead of this gimmicky AA platform that can oneshot aircrafts.

My maxed comp armor / afterburner/ shredder libby would like to thank SOE for the changes.
I am completely satisfied with these changes, lol.

I am sort of wondering just exactly what the **** were they thinking about when they buffed the liberators. I just left a game where that is ALL that you saw in the air, and just completely laid waste to people in the base. Yes, in the base. inside the shields.

You still can't fix the fact that the liberators are bombing spawn rooms, bypassing the shields because they can't render? Really? Fix your mechanics on the shield rooms, and for God's sake - take those Liberator changes back out to PTS, and give people the proper testing time.

I think there will be way more LIb = OP threads now. Because it actualy is OP now against ESF. Walker buffed, a new OP A2A Tailgun, shared XP which will allow us now to actually get Tailgunners and a new angle for the tailgun which allows the Tailgun and the belly gun to shot at the same direction.

It will depend on how many people on my Server will use comp armor but i got killleder by a Lib yesterday after my gunner landes 3 Dalton shots and i landed some TB.

3/3 Shredder Libs with Walker/lock-ons especially with the new Tailgun angle, will melt ESF.

I actually don't see the new tailgun a very OP in a 1v1 they're fairly easy to dodge. I'd say the Walker is overall more dangerous due to the increased firing arc. The Hyena's are really good at trolling ESF v ESF fights though.

I'm ALRIGHT with composite armor letting you survive that second Dalton but it is definitely absurd right now. Other than sheer laziness there's no reason not to take it over NAR.

3/3 Lib with Comp armor and Shredder Walker is definitely the new powerhouse though. GG Dalton Libs.