SOE clawback on purchase errors is awful business

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Phazaar, Dec 17, 2013.

  1. Phazaar

    Just going through the patch notes, I came across this, hidden at the bottom of the 'misc' section with no attention drawn to it:

    I don't really know how far this permeates, and I don't believe any of my accounts are going to be affected. With that said though, I think someone has to call 'bull****' on this. If it's really such a small number of accounts, it isn't going to be a massive cost, and is just a horrible way to trade.

    If Amazon dispatch an item to me incorrectly, where they've either not received payment, or they've shipped an extra item, they don't send the bailiffs round to steal it from me. They accept that their system made a mistake, they fix the error going forwards, and they accept that in any kind of development process, a few points of loss are to be accepted.

    The same with my online supermarket shop. If they put the wrong item in, not only do they refund me the money I paid (even if the item that did arrive is far more expensive!), they let me keep the item too.

    My bank do the same thing. If I get a statement from them that says I've got £30 of card charges, and I pay them £30, but they'd worked it out wrong and it was actually £300, not only do they not come after me for £270, they also throw some cash my way as an apology!! An apology for charging me 1/10th of what they should. Because an error is an error, and it's 100% their fault and 0% mine.

    I'll stop here as I know you all hate how I go on, but jesus, SOE. Get a grip. You're not going to make friends with this, but you might just continue to propagate the taste of bile we all get from doing business with companies that behave this way.
    • Up x 13
  2. f0d

    i agree
    in the past they actually let you keep their screw ups (like the overpayment of the weapon cert refunds) so i dont know why they are doing this now when it doesnt affect the game as much as their past screw ups (people getting 1/2 million certs from the cert refund for example)

    not a smart move SOE
    • Up x 3
  3. Hatesphere

    so it puts a taste of bile in your mouth that someone might have to pay for something they bought? basically the system glitched and didn't charge someone for an item they bought, why should they be entitled to free ****?
    • Up x 10
  4. Alarox

    Doesn't seem like a big deal to me at all. Unless you want to argue that those players deserve to keep something they didn't actually purchase.
    • Up x 8
  5. IamDH

    I don't mean to sound evil here but they bought something for free. It was SOE's fault for letting this happen but its only fair to other SC users (i dont use SC just so you know) that they pay for their items
  6. f0d

    im a SC user and i dont think its unfair to give them free items
    • Up x 3
  7. Loui5D

    That's because of UK consumer law, if you get something that you did not intend to get it will be classified as a gift therefore you don't have to return it.

    But i agree with what you are saying, i myself have fallen foul to SOE's marketing, Membership and the whole anniversary bundle farce.
  8. IamDH

    Well thats your opinion. I'm sure someone out there somewhere within this world has a different opinion

    You go to the store and purchase an item. If someone takes an item for free its not good for the store or other customers
  9. f0d

    they let people keep the overpaid certs when the cert refund was given which makes MUCH more of a difference than an item or 2
    • Up x 1
  10. IamDH

    Just because they did it before doesnt mean they should keep on repeating it
  11. Alarox

    That still doesn't make the case for letting people keep something they didn't buy. SOE can do it if they want, I don't give a damn. But I see no logic in the idea that they MUST do it, or even should.
    • Up x 2
  12. stalkish

    Couldnt miss out on the cash grab could they?
    Consider changing your name to SO, forget the E, you have no interest in entertaining people.
    How about creat a polished emersive game that satisfies a wide range of gameplay styles, create something that makes us feel privileged to be a part of, after that create a way for people to pay for such a thing and youll get customers in droves. Think youll find you get alot more £$£$ than cash grabbing with flavour of the month items in a half arsed unfinished game.
    • Up x 1
  13. DeoAdiuvante

    Customers apparently purchased items, but their Station Cash balance was not deducted. SOE eventually did deduct Station Cash equivalent to what they bought. Why is this a big deal?
    • Up x 3
  14. LordMondando

    On the other hand zavvi just threatened a bunch of people it sent PSP's to with legal action if they didn't return them.

    Best practice here is pretty poorly defined, and legally given we are buying SC not items.
  15. Phazaar

    A company my company used to be twinned with did much the same. Let's just say that you get laughed out of court; it will cost -dozens- of times more in court costs just to start the process than the value of the item. Total cost to them was about £60k IIRC, but in such small amounts (all about the value of a PSP) that the sheer number of cases makes it a nonsense.

    I guess the TL;DR is just threats of legal action are cheap, legal action isn't. Keep your PSPs ;)
  16. Phazaar

    Actually no, they took back the items. I hate this 'it's only 1's and 0's' approach to pseudo-ownership. It's disempowering and at least to me, makes micro-transactions an incredibly unattractive model. If you disincentivise players from trusting your cash shop, that's going to cost you a whole lot more than a few items that you failed to provide a working billing system to receive payment for.

    Also I'd like to point out that when I have previously bought stuff, I would never have noticed if my SC was debited or not; it's a very reasonable expectation of a customer that if they click 'buy', and receive an item, they have bought that item. They may then go on to spend more, or find they prefer that particular item. Taking it away from them may leave them unable to repurchase (if they no longer have any SC due to buying other items), or simply make them angry (most people won't read the patch notes, and even if they do, may be unaware that they're affected) and disenfranchised with SOE. A lot of it is about straws and camels, too, I guess.
  17. Alarox

    That is a good argument and all true.
    • Up x 3
  18. CaptHaddock

    Those people can now buy the item with SC and still have it, or purchase another because it was needed, or wait for a holiday deal and purchase the same item at a discount.

    Or are you whining that people will be mad for not having free stuff in a free game? To hell with capitalism and people trying to make money - I expect you work pro bono for a charitable organization, right?
  19. Phazaar

    You make an interesting point about discounts... If this 'bug' occurred when people bought sale items (Now you mention it, I remember once there was a daily sale where people weren't getting charged), they're now going to miss out on the discount they actually purchased it at.

    But bear in mind the point that they are more than likely unaware, and thus will probably have respent the SC already, too.

    You seem to have it in mind that this is the player's fault. It's not. It's SOEs. They didn't ask for free stuff. Stuff was given to them. They may or may not have been aware that they didn't pay for it. They may since have spent thousands of certs upgrading those items etc. The only person at fault is SOE. I see no reason a customer should suffer for the mistakes a business has made.

    The 'honest capitalism' argument is straight up wrong. You have to have balance between 'trying to make money', and 'trying to -take- money'; tactics like this firmly fall into the latter.

    Now you mention it, yup. One charity, a CIC, a Co-op, and a couple of community organisations that we're applying for charitable status for.

    Life gets a whole lot better when you accept that making money should be the least important element in your business plan - you'll make a whole lot more money that way...
    • Up x 1
  20. Daemeon

    This is hilarious. There is no way to justify defending someone with stealing something they did not buy. In my line of work it is possible for customers to get product without having paid for it if a mistake is made. We ask politely for it to be paid for at first but make no mistake... if they do not it goes to collections and/or the police.

    Can SOE just turn a blind eye to theft? Sure. But they don't have to and they did not. Sorry to those that did not get away with it.
    • Up x 1