So why exactly is NC the only faction with zero-risk AV?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by TetholinTR, Feb 8, 2023.

  1. TetholinTR

    Title.

    I do not understand how the NC15 Phoenix has been allowed to keep it's place in the game. No other faction has the ability to literally shoot rockets around corners. A small group of even semi-capable players armed with this thing can stop convoys in their tracks by sniping repair sundies and partly damaged tanks and vehicles. It can be fired from inside spawn rooms. It can be fired from behind cliffs, rocks, inside Skyshields, on the back of Harrassers/Valks. There are so many places the user can be where they are functionally unkillable and yet, are able to continue to plink away with reasonable AV damage.

    A) Why is this ok to keep on ONE faction?
    B) Why isn't there an analogue of this available to other factions
    C) Why is it usable from a god damn spawn room?

    EDIT: And before some genius says 'Just shoot the rocket 5head'. Yeah, with PS2s world-renowned and impeccable netcode, I'm really going to be stopping that wave of shrieking stupidity every 10s.
    • Up x 1
  2. AuricStarSand

    Well the Phoenix is weak if only one planetman is using the launcher, however if 2 are, then yes it's a tank killer.

    Someone was firing them from Lith, while I drove some prowlers via the Lith road from Ascent. & 2 guys with phoenix's were deadly hitting the road. While VS had some magriders kiting the other side of the road.

    Took out 2 of my prowlers, some other tr tanks. While tr was busy having a tank verse tank road fight with vs.

    The reason it hasn't been nerfed yet is simple, most situations won't have 2 players use the phoenix, & if only one guy uses it, it usually has a tough time killing anything.

    As for NC having AV, they also have had the best AV with max's the raven. Ravens use to shoot the TI vehicle terminal road, from Crowns airpad. Was super troll.
    • Up x 2
  3. TetholinTR

    A similar situation led me to this thread. Four (4), of these damn things, were just flying up the road into the Ascent from within a Skyshield. Absolutely no way to get to the players spamming it and a small army of Engys needed to stop tanks just immediately disintegrating. Zero counterplay to it at all. It completely neutered any form of armour gameplay or Sundy use.
  4. Liewec123

    It has extremely weak dps, the projectile is slow (can literally be outrun by every vehicle in the game,
    the projectile can't turn very well, the projetile despawns after a fairly short range,
    the projectile is the only projectile in the game which can be shot down.
    Unless you're in the spawn room it makes you a sitting duck,
    If you are in the spawn room your DPS will be even lower thanks to plenty of your missiles exploding on the exit.

    All 3 empire specific rocket launchers have their perks and downsides.
    No RL hits moving targets as good as Lancer, at the cost of alpha.
    Striker is (should be when it isn't bugging out) one of the best AA tools in the game at the cost of anti-max potential.
    Phoenix has the ability to stear the rocket at the cost of dps.
    • Up x 1
  5. TetholinTR

    Ok, so let me de-construct this load of nonsense.

    1) It has extremely weak DPS. FALSE - It has 100 less damage than the Decimator. (875 vs 975). And a FASTER reload speed. (3.43s vs 5.7s).

    Over a 30s period (rounded down), assuming no travel time, the Phoenix does 7,000 DPS. The Decimator would do a paltry 4,875!

    https://planetside.fandom.com/wiki/NS_Decimator
    https://planetside.fandom.com/wiki/NC15_Phoenix

    2) The projectile can be outrun by every vehicle in the game. Likely - But so can the Decimator, as the velocity of the rocket is 42m/s vs 60m/s and yet, has WIRE GUIDED PROPERTIES.

    3) The projectile can't turn very well. Debatable - I've seen the projectile turn tighter than most vehicles can. Anecdotal though as I can't find turn degree information on the wiki.

    4) The projectile can be shot down. True - Pointless mention though due to inconsistant netcode and firing from unexpected angles.

    5) It makes you a sitting duck. False - Literally read my previous comment.

    6) Sitting in spawn room rocket bug. True - This happens for literally everything. And does not change the weapon in any meaningful manner.

    Regarding the other RLs: UTTERLY IMMATERIAL. ALL of these require the person firing to be in DIRECT LINE OF SIGHT OF THE TARGET.

    EDIT: Noticed I failed to discuss the range, which is only 5m less than the lock-on range of most RLs
  6. JibbaJabba

    No. You're not going to deconstruct his nonsense. He was right.

    You just laid out the facts of what would happen if you used point blank shots with no flight time. The decimator begins reloading the moment the shot is fired. The Phoenix begins loading after the shot has hit.

    Your DPS numbers are utter ****. Stop it.

    The phoenix is pretty weak solo. The REAL dps of it is so slow you can out rep it all day long. Get a buddy to shoot down say one in three of them and the game is over really. Do nothing and ignore it and yeah, particularly a spawn warrior will become a real problem.

    But...

    The phoenix is devastating when used properly with teamwork. You witnessed this.

    Does it have a counter? Yes! Lots of them! But they too are all going to require teamwork.
    • Up x 7
  7. TetholinTR

    I'm sorry, but, where is your rebuttal? You're just parroting what Liewec said with absolutely nothing of substance? Let's do some more maths for you, shall we?

    Assuming a target at 200m:
    Pheonix Travel Time per shot - 4.76s
    Decimator Travel Time per shot - 3.33s

    Pheonix Flight Time + Reload - 8.19s per instance of damage.
    Decimator Flight Time + Reload - 9.03s per instance of damage.

    Over 60s (rounded down):

    Pheonix - 5950 DPM - 99.16r DPS
    Decimator - 5700 DPM - 95 DPS

    This again shows that the Strongest NX RL available to all factions is WORSE than the Pheonix whilst being purely dumbfire.

    EDIT: Further to this. 'Teamwork'? Pray tell what teamwork can be done to kill 2-3-4 of these launchers sat in a spawn room or behind a skyshield pillbox/infantry tower with one-way shields? This is the POINT OF THE THREAD. WHY is NC the ONLY faction with risk-free AV?
  8. Somentine

    Bro, flight time doesn't matter for deci because you aren't forced to fly it. The only hit this actually matter for is the last. You can fire the deci as fast as it can reload, you can't do that with the pheonix.

    The DPS is garbage, there is no ignoring that.

    The phoenix mechanic is aids, but it is both counterable and largely ignorable unless used enmasse .
    • Up x 3
  9. TetholinTR

    ???

    Just because you're flying the rocket doesn't mean anything. It still takes time for either rocket to reach the target.
  10. VV4LL3

    TR has the Stryker...

    Basically fires 6 of rockets that auto-lock on if close to an aircraft... they're widely used and do a significant amount of damage. Can still damage any vehicle though...
    at 150 RPM, 6 rockets are deployed in 2.4 seconds.

    Each rocket does 140 dmg -- so 840 dmg / 2.4 sec, w/ a 3 second cool down....very impressive for an anti-air weapon.
    Rocket velocity 220 m/s (FAST)

    to put it in perspective....

    The NSO MAX, hummingbird

    A MAX.... fires 6, with a ~8 second cool down... 150 RPM
    requires a 4 second lock on time, poor pathing.

    Each drone does 165 dmg -- so 990 dmg 2.4 sec, with a velocity of 110 m/s REALLY slow -- functionally it's about 90 m/s... (VERY SLOW).

    So the Stryker can EASILY out perform a MAX weapon.


    T2 Stryker -- 2.4 + 3 sec reload = 5.4 sec entire fire cycle.

    60 seconds / 5.4 = number fire cycles, = 11.11 cycles.... x dmg per cycle 840 = 9,330 dmg per min / 60 sec, DPS

    Hummingbird -- 2.4 sec + 8 sec cooldown = 10.4 sec entire fire cycle = 5,711 dmg per min /

    SIGNIFICANT ADVANTAGE
    • Up x 2
  11. CW5.BH

    You are not open to anything man. You made up your mind and you are trying to back it up with sudo math.

    Flight time in the Pheonix adds to the reload time. It makes the DPS fall off to worthless levels.With any other launcher you can just lock or dumb fire and instantly reload. The Pheonix at POINT BLANK does not have the reload time you see on the box as you still have to let it guide for a second before leaving the TV guidance.

    You have not once provided any good solution to the fact that it exists other than removing it from the faction that already suffers from not being different enough.

    Let me ask you this, Tetholin, have you ever used it? If so was it a part of a squad who was using them to counter vehicles or solo? It provides NOTHING other than TV guidance that other factions don't have a better version of.
    • Up x 4
  12. Somentine

    Because one is firing once every ~10 seconds, the other is firing ~every 6.

    And the deci isn't even the best DPS, it's the best RL because it is the highest alpha + relatively consistent ohk on many things.
    • Up x 2
  13. LodeTria

    Using it in valks is just asking to blow yourself up. Harassers too, but it can sometimes work depending on the angle the harasser relative to the ground it's on.

    Also those dps numbers is bad.

    It's ultimately a joke launcher that doesn't get much use, because the things it can be good at are just outclassed by using something else.
    • Up x 2
  14. Liewec123

    7000DPS? GREAT! I'll be sure to use it next time I'm sitting ontop of a magrider!
    Learning that point-blank phoenix can melt MBTs in less than a second has opened so many new opportunities!

    Yeah my bad, being able to counter the damage entirely is such an irrelevant point!


    On a serious note if I wasn't in bed i'd give you some real world dps stats ;)
    Though that 7000 dps does sound nice!
    (I think your math might be sliiiiiiightly off.)
    (Maggies and Prowlers have 5000 hp.)

    But generally using phoenix you are sitting on 10s+ reloads,
    which decreases your DPS ever so slightly than firing point blank...
    • Up x 2
  15. JibbaJabba

    You just read it.

    Or maybe you don't read because you just repeated that same stupid point..

    WRONG. AGAIN.

    Using your own stupid numbers, I'm not even going to check if they are right..

    Decimator would be 5.7 seconds. It fires as fast as it reloads.
    Phoenix would be 8.19s. It fires as fast as it completes travel time and then reloads.
  16. JibbaJabba

    Yes it does. If you're flying the rocket you are not reloading the next.
    • Up x 1
  17. TetholinTR

    Right, since nobody is ACTUALLY refuting my point with data and just giving anecdotal 'it sucs xd'. I have some videos that are currently uploading (thanks **** internet) that shows that the Pheonix kills a Magrider in the same time as a Decimator, from the same distance (100m). I will add them here once they are done.

    I have also posited the question: 'WHY is NC the ONLY faction with risk-free AV?' Nobody has actually answered this. At all. Either give everyone access to it or nobody at all. With regards to 'teamwork' as a counter, nobody has actually answered how you're supposed to kill people sat in spawns or hunkered away in Skyshield/Inf Towers. If this weapon must remain in the game for some inane reason, give vehicles an actual countermeasure against it. Maybe make the Stealth Module cause the vehicle to have Infil Camo when viewed from the missile?

    EDIT:

    I invite you to actually re-read the maths posted. This is TIME PER INSTANCE OF DAMAGE. You know, DAMAGE PER SECOND, the thing that YOU SPECIFICALLY BROUGHT UP.
  18. TetholinTR

    You are correct, my math is off in that initial post because I used DPS instead of DPM. But I look forward to your maths once you're out of bed.
  19. CW5.BH

    Tetholin do yourself a favor and just make an NC character for once and test it in the VR room. It is why it exists. Guide the rocket in as if the tanker was trying to avoid your shots and then do the same with a better launcher and time yourself. You will be shocked at what you can do by yourself.
  20. TetholinTR

    What, you mean like this?

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/382913260841730052/1073686612980015175/PheonixC.mp4
    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/382913260841730052/1073686636476506213/DeciC.mp4