So much crying about the Dalton

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Nyscha, Mar 2, 2014.

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  1. Tommyp2006

    I only have 52 hours in a mossie, and I have gone up against some of the best lib teams on Waterson. I may not kill them every time, but I will certainly either drive them off or distract them long enough for allies to show up and help. You HAVE to use your maneuverability to your advantage. If you're an ESF pilot, it is to your advantage to memorize the Dalton's reload time, I can picture that little reload wheel going around every time they fire, and actively dodge them. Taking on a lib is similar to taking on a MBT with a harasser, you have to use your mobility to your advantage, and keep up constant fire on them, and keep your distance. The more seat time you have in a lib, the better prepared you will be to fight one too. These days, the libs I fear the most are shredder libs because they can more easily keep up constant damage on me, it's much easier to dodge a single round than it is all those shredder rounds.

    I'm sure it's significantly harder to take on a lib team without afterburner tanks, but that's an active choice that you decide to make.
  2. Axehilt

    The real balance problem is just the liberator overall as an AA platform. I want it to remain fantastic against ground, but feel a little more vulnerable against air. It doesn't have to be much, just a small change should be enough.

    I don't really think it's dalton-specific. I think the better balance change would be to slightly reduce the liberator's speed or agility, actually. Dalton projectile speed would be a distant third.

    Basically right now you need to be about as skilled (or better) as an ESF trying to tackle a lib, and since ESFs should be the counter to libs that doesn't seem right. There should be more of a margin of error (so a slightly less skilled ESF should be able to zone out or destroy a lib.)
  3. JackD

    Dalton is second best anti.air and third best AI. Get your facts straight.
  4. JackD

    ESFs = plural. It´s a odd thought to think a 350 resources vehicle with a 2 man crew should have a huge disatvantage against a solo operated 250 resources vehicle. So get 2 ESF and counter.
  5. sodopro

    Yeah shredder master race.
  6. Cougarbrit

    The bottom line is if the Dalton gets nerfed everybody will switch to the Shredder, and then the Libs truly will be the master race of the skies and not even Cswic's brethren will stop us.

    And all you nerfherders will die even more than before, to a larger pool of enemies.
  7. Ronin Oni

    So bring backup of your own?

    Sorry, how do you expect to beat a larger coordinated force without your own?

    THAT would be absurd and indicative of something that was OP
  8. Ronin Oni

    Again, you can't fault the game mechanics for your lack of teammates.

    Join an Outfit FFS. Or give up on flying. Or accept the fact that flying solo means you need to avoid 90% of enemy air groups unless there's random air support or AA nearby in which case you're betting success on unknowns.

    It's absurd to complain about being beat by teamwork without using any yourself.
  9. Kristan

    Actually I can. This game crashes for me a lot. I can't play in outfit or participate in team maneuvers when my game crashes at the most important moment!
    That's why I left game back ago and has been kicked from my outfit. That's why I'm a lone wolf now when I have returned. I can't work with other players as team since this game actually not allows me to.
  10. Utrooperx

    I just wish that they didn't have those stupid metal shields over Spawn Rooms roofs that force you to step outside to line up on the Air Farce Master Race directly overhead raining shells down on the poor Ground pounder peasants...if you manage to live through the rain of pain...9 times out of 10 your lock-on ASP missile just does a 90 degree turn and explodes on terrain/trees/ the point where the pilots don't even bother with flares because your Anti-Air missiles are darn near worthless...
  11. 6n0m0n

    I get scared off by nemeses all the time-- granted you don't usually kill a good liberator with one, but you can easily put it out of commission for a few minutes or kill it quickly with the help of a burster. It's hard for liberators (in my experience) to take on prepared infantry who haven't already been pushed back to the spawn room, which is why you only tend to see them around little installations.

    The trick against a dalton is just not to give it the opportunity to fire much.
  12. Ronin Oni

    If your game is crashing that's an entirely different issue (what specs you got though? It's stabilized pretty well recently) that has NOTHING to do with balance.
  13. Axehilt

    Who said huge disadvantage? I just want a counter to work a little better. Being overpowered on account of resource cost is a terrible way to run a game (see also: overpowered MAXes.) If you want to reduce the resource cost to 250 once things are balanced, I'm all for it!

    Liberators are currently quite comfortable taking on enemy ESFs, and that's clearly a balance problem.
  14. emjayz

    the "GET SKILLZ MLGYOLOSWAG" arguments are always funny re: the dalton, seeing as talk of ace pilots being able to kill lesser lib crews must mean that liberators are fine.

    im no ace pilot, but im well aware of what you gotta do to take down a liberator. otoh, im still waiting to see a way for any pilot(s), ace or not, to kill a lib crew that has discovered the concept of the flight ceiling. please, keep telling me to climb over his belly gun when the game itself doesnt allow me to.
  15. JackD

    How? At same skill Level the ESF is at a advantage. Only good Lib crews are good at taking on ESF and this is only because there is a huge percentage of scrub ESF pilots. The average Lib crew needs luck to survive a ESF attack. Most Libs dont even know how to fight ESF.
  16. Nyscha

    I like how everyone thinks the dalton is just point and click.
    Don't forget the stupid gravity they added onto the shells because apparently the shell gains 300% in weight when its fired even though its a 120mm shell firing straight down while the Vanguard is the same calibre and has no shell drop what so ever even though its firing horizontally and doesn't seem to be effected by gravity.

    And for those complaining about the liberators "flying upside down" explain how ESF's can fly completely vertical then or climb when they should be stalling?

    Or galaxys flying upside like I recorded years ago?

    This isn't a flight simulator.
  17. Axehilt

    How? By leveraging the massive TTK advantage, naturally. I'm pretty consistent as a solo liberator at taking out same-skill ESFs because they have to play flawlessly for 30+ seconds and it only takes one slip-up for them to die.

    A variety of tactics works and many pilots die in the first head-on encounter, but the noteable tactics which catch many ESFs are:
    1. Get low to the ground, preferably in as much of a crater as possible, then engage with the nosegun. Basically you're minimizing the number of potential angles they can engage from, which makes it easier to turn your nosegun on them.
    2. Fly straight and fast and tailgun them down. In this case they will struggle to keep out of the tailgun's arc because libs move reasonably fast.
    3. "The Reverse Headbutt", where you know an ESF is chasing you and aimed directly at you (because you're taking damage) and you're moving full speed away from them for a couple seconds, then sharply stop and pull up, causing a collision. I survive. My opponent doesn't.
    Combining these tactics with the addition of a Dalton or Shredder and a gunner makes it that much deadlier an AA platform.
    The TTK advantage is how you win, but it's not exactly what needs to change about the lib, since if you reduce their speed or agility you'll create enough of an agility advantage (in favor of the ESF) so that they're more consistent at countering libs.
  18. HerpTheDerp

    You do realize that vehicles in this game have various resists to various weapons right? Anti-armor weapons are much more effective against aircraft than they are against actual armor.
  19. DrPapaPenguin

    Come to think of it, here's a good comparison to the Lib vs ESF situation:

    Let's say you play World of Tanks, and you drive your little AMX 12t light tank. It's a great little tank, with an autoloader cannon that can pump out quite a bit of hurt, but the tank itself is very thinly armored. It is, however, very fast and manouverable, as well as a bloody small target to hit. Now let's say your enemy drives an SU-152, which is a turretless tank destroyer with a monstorous 152 mm howitzer that gives everything it hits a minor case of ******, especially if it penetrates. However it is a rather big tank, it doesn't turn anywhere near as fast as the AMX and it can't even hope to outrun it. Also the gun has something like a 15 second reload, and the shells have a long travel time. Was it designed to fight light tanks? Of course not, they can run circles around it singing "Ring around a Roasie" peppering it full of shot. It's targets are other tanks that are either slow or large, unmissable targets. Let's say the AMX 12t driver knows what he is doing. He will wait for the SU to be distracted, or wait for it to fire, move in and use it's superior speed and traverse speed to basically stay on it's blindside as it shoots the enemy to hell. That's what the AMX is effective in.

    Now let's consider that the AMX driver is an idiot. He looks at the enemy, decides that "Oh, it is a slow, huge target meant for destroying other slow, huge targets, it's ineffective against me!". He rushes the SU in a straight-ish line, takes n HE round to the face and kerplodes. Because he forgot the most important rule of them all - he plays a light tank, who is effective at evading enemy fire, otherwise he is dead and not very effective against anything. Bar the fact that flying requires both horizontal and vertical awareness, the moral is quite the same. You are only effective because of your speed and ability to outmanouver the lib. If you ignore that you may as well not fly at all and feed the enemy free XP because you just suck. It's not an insult by the way, Air game has the highest ceiling (pun not intended) of skill to even do remotely well in. It's definetely not for everyone. There are no "hard counters" in the air, most units can take each other on (even galaxy vs ESF) under right circumstances as it is very much dependant on pilot skill. No one expects you to succeed, but you are expected to have a lot of experience under your belt before you start complaining.

    And another note - in the Dalton-toting Liberator, the success hinges fully on BOTH the pilot AND gunner being very good at what they do. That means youare effectively fighting against 2 very good people and it wil never be a fight in your favour, because one can concentrate fully on piloting and the other - fully on shooting. You have to concentrate on both piloting AND gunning. So to be completely fair, compare 2 ESFs vs one Lib, and see who wins there.

    Final note - I don't actually fly Libs. Though I think I do have one ESF kill with a dalton, I'm actually the one who flies ESFs against them, so I can appreciate the skill it takes to take us down from that sky anvil. Hell, if it were me inside the gunship, I'd be dropping bricks :D
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  20. Hdgunnell

    If you get daltoned in a esf, you didn't dodge/fight the lib correctly. If you get daltoned in your tank, you didn't have air support or a secondary gunner. If you get daltoned as infantry, it means theres nothing else to shoot and you're probably in the middle of a field.

    A good lib means there is a combination of a good pilot, and a good gunner. These two must communicate constantly, and do it well. If by chance you are targeted by an experienced lib crew, you just have to be better that them.

    My point is that there are ways to fight the #superopplznerfagaindalton******s in the sky, you are just bad.
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