[Suggestion] So about the Harasser

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Aloysyus, May 23, 2014.

  1. Aloysyus

    Hello folks!

    I used to be a big fan of the Harasser. I have 200h and 6m in this vehicle so let's say i honestly know what i am talking about. To compare: I have 13d in a Vanguard now, so i am pretty sure that i am able to compare these vehicles.

    Post-nerf the Harasser was a really strong vehicle, i admit that. You could live for hours, harassing tanks and farming certs, even repair on the run. Composite armor made it really hard to kill.

    Then they nerfed it and i think a slight nerf was needed, even if i loved this vehicle that much. But what SOE did was not a nerf. It was a big, fat execution. They pretty much nerfed everything BY FAR. Nerfed rumble seat repair by 70%, nerfed the damage output (Halberd at least) to almost 50%, nerfed the turbo, nerfed the composite armor from ~35% to 8%.

    After that patch the Harasser became a joke. Before it was a serious threat and when i am in a tank now i am like "Yea, whatever!". One shot is enough to make it back off immediately, two AP rounds get it burning. I mean, come on, if it first was overperforming then now it is a piece of crap and everyone knows it.

    I am aware of the fact that they did a slight buff after, buffing the turbo a bit, moving it to passive, so you are able to use fire surpression. But FS on the Harasser is not like in an ESF, it is weak as before, i think it's around 13%.

    The reason of all the nerfs were because it was "overperforming on the battlefield". Alright, let's say that is true. Now, SOE, can you tell me what vehicle is NOT "overperforming"? Can you tell me that an ESF with a good pilot, a (BUFFED!) Liberator or even a friggin' tank are not cert farming machines? I mean, i smell a lot of irony telling us that the only fast, flexible and fun-to-use ground vehicle (oky, flash is another category) is overperforming, nerfing it to death and then buff the Liberator and the AP tank. And again i know what i am talking about, i have almost 100h in a Liberator.

    So you basically buffed the slow, strong farming machines that stand around towers in 90% pop zergs and took most of the fun out of a vehicle like the Harasser. And NOW you even made the Lightning available for all bases who can spawn anything.

    Don't get me wrong: Yes, the Harasser was too strong for the resources it needed and it needed a slight nerf. But it was dead before with 2x AP and 1x Halberd and it needed a lot of situational awareness and a good driver to keep it alive. If you had nerfed rumble-seat-repair to like 60% of it's original state, nerf the damage output by ~20% and the composite to ~70% of it's original state it would have been fine. But it still is a piece of crap and everyone knows it.

    Okay, before the arguments come: I am very well aware of the fact that in some cases you are able to perform great with this vehicle. I know about PPA and Marauder farms, i know about finishing smoking tanks. But that is all you really can do apart from taking out tanks with BR10-40 scrubs. And yes, i know how to handle this vehicle and i know other drivers who are able to perform great in it. But you should not have to be one of the best drivers to perform good with it.
    Every other vehicle is performing way better, there is nothing backing up the opinion that the Harasser should stay the way it is right now.

    I waited months, including the slight buff, until i opened this thread and complain. I spawned just a couple Harassers since the nerf and then i lost interest. It is ridiculous how fast you die and how long it takes you to take out anything. Is the only role of the Harsser to roadkill some ants standing next to a deployed Sunderer (invisible flash ftw.) or PPA-farm at Broken Arch?

    So please, SOE, give the Harasser a role, give it anything that he can perform extremely well in. Basically everything you can do better in other vehicles. I know it is still fun to climb up a hill with the Harasser but every ESF can kill you even with it's nosegun in no time.

    So, in my conclusion, it either needs a HUGE buff more directing to it's original state or it needs a HUGE change to a assume a certain role in the game.

    So, i've finally written it and i might not be the first one. But after months of post-nerf observating and testing instead of raging right after the nerf i feel like i have the right to complain.

    Aloysyus
    • Up x 9
  2. dstock

    Composite never should have existed, and the only proper fix is to delete it, and refund the certs we all spent on it. Also, the original maximum value was 24%, not ~35%. Most, if not all, of the other changes were knee-jerk adjustments because Composite Armor was beyond broken. Delete Composite Armor, revert most of the changes minus the turbo and base resistance values, and let's see what happens?
    • Up x 6
  3. Aloysyus

    Yea, i rememberd the number wrong and for some reason there is no edit-button for me anymore. But i don't really think it is just about composite. As i said: pretty much everything was nerfed. SOE never nerved anything so into-the-ground then this. It almost has no value anymore apart from some special situations or for the fun of it.
  4. dstock

    I hear ya. I wasn't trying to bust your balls on the number, I just wanted to keep it straight, forumsiders will take any quote as fact these days. The point I was trying to make is that Composite was basically required before hand, it was too good/the stock vehicle was too weak. I think the big round of nerfs was more knee-jerk response to how OP composite made the vehicle, rather than taking some time to distill the situation and identify the real problem, namely that the stock resistances were too low against most damage sources.

    I disagree it has no point, but I know in my case and most of those I Harass with, we still do it because it remains fun. Nothing in this game has the same combination of individual fun (driving/gunning) and teamwork/coordination, plus it's just enjoyable to drive (minus whatever is going on with the physics right now).

    I'm interested to see what others have to say on the state of the Harasser. Personally, I'd like to see a few more out there to fight with/against, but I think it's in a decent spot again. That said, I had fun with it while it was nerfed into the ground too, so perhaps I'm just biased.
  5. oberchingus


    You're definitely biased dstock.

    I'm not sure what my take is anymore. I agree that they're still super fun to drive regardless of whats going on with the physics and they're fun to gun. I drive the harasser on jumps on PTS so not to be disturbed and to make use of different camos. I also love running harasser ops with a community. If I was soloing all the time, I'd probably quit. And the harasser and our harasser community is my only reason for playing at the moment.

    I'm inclined to agree with Aloysyus that the harasser is missing a role because of the identity crisis SOE created for it. Is it a taxi or a high speed combat vehicle? When you spot an enemy harasser, the call-out says, "enemy transport vehicle spotted" and yet it's armed with an AV or AI or AA weapon.

    If it's a taxi service, than remove the guns and nerf it into oblivion.
    or
    If it's a high speed, low drag, hunter killer, than treat it as such. And fix the damage variables on the nerfed guns.

    I think the harasser is a low priority item for SOE in that they won't touch it for a year, or until their data analytics tell them otherwise.
  6. MisterTwister22


    I wouldn't mind if they don't touch it for a year. After they take the flash physics tuning off of it!
    • Up x 1
  7. oberchingus


    I'd be good with that too. A flash is a flash. A harasser, is a harasser? What's a harasser? Duck if I know!
  8. Alabammer

    Honestly, and Im super biased here, I do fine in a harasser. Yes I agree that people shouldnt have to be the best drivers/gunners to be able to do well in a harasser, but again I think the vehicle is near that point at the moment. I can honestly remember being the only one on the map in a buggy, but thats ok, noone knew what hit em, all the scrubs were like wtf was that that just hit me in the @ss. I was actually able to make the post nerf buggy work. Granted, I do this day in and day out, and I have a driver that is hands down a bad@ss at the wheel which makes all the difference in the world, but if I were to say it needed anything at this point in time it needs a slight buff at weapon power. The halberd needs to be back to where it was, theres no credible reason for putting it at 200 below the tank secondary version when it costs 300 resources to pull, in my eyes, youre paying for the tank secondary at that point. Maybe buff the Vulcan back to some of its original power to keep it in line with the saron and enforcer, and improve the AI weapons, especially the empire specific marauder and cannister.

    I guess what Im saying is that apart from the recent changes in physics (which I dont like) the buggy itself is fine, the weapons need a bit of a buff (and Im talking about a reasonable buff not let me two shot tanks for all the haters). I die plenty, I kill plenty.... but thats what balance is.
    • Up x 2
  9. Sagabyte

    Certainly some weapons need a buff. Isn't that right, canister?
  10. Aloysyus

    I hear you and i know i could still do some nice stuff in a Harasser but as someone said before: it is for the fun of it, you can jump around, surprise-kill some smoking tanks or roadkill spawning ants. But it is not really a vehicl that has a role. Before they were serious threats and had to be dealt with, now you can kill them by unloading some infantry fire on them. They are completely defenseless if they don't have great cover or run away very wide.

    I mentioned that i am a tanker, too and i have a lot of experience in all three tanks. Tanks are basically not destructible by Harassers if they are not already in trouble. Some time after the nerf i was even killed by a friggin' skyguard. I really think you should be able to survive that, even if it's in the middle of a frozen lake on Esamir. I feel nothing but pity with most harasser drivers because i know they are pretty much screwed if they actually try to get into the fight and shoot at tanks.

    And i feel melancholy because i had so much fun with it. Circling around enemy tanks who overextended, run pretty fast, repair on rumble seat, jump around... i loved it. Nowadays i have no idea why i should pull a Harasser. I could do it for fun or to hava a challenge not to die in crazy situations. But given the fact that you can go down in seconds by pretty much everything - infantry fire, tanks, ESF noseguns... - it is no fun at all.

    I still have hope. SOE saw that the Harasser needed a buff again and they did it. But the slight buff was a joke. I mean, come on... give us the possibility for FS that repair a few % when everything can bring you down in no time. So i hope for a new buff because it is very, very obvious that the Harasser is way underperforming. You can see it on the map: Today we had an alert on esamir and there were tons of lightnings spawned by the factions that didn't own the tech plant. Just a couple hHarassers and they went down in seconds because they are too weak.

    Why should a Harasser not be as threatening as a tank? because it costs less resources? Fine, let it cost 450 resources, i don't care. But please make it useful again.
  11. Alabammer

    Good luck with the whole a harasser should be as powerful as a tank, Id support you, but youre not gonna get much of it (support that is) towards your argument. The fact is the majority of the population have no inclination to play harasser and because they are not involved with it they tend to think that tanks should beat harassers (because they themselves pull tanks). I dont agree with you on the whole people are screwed if they pull a harasser and go against tanks. I will say that people will not put themselves in the best position to make the most of the situation. For starters, I see many a noob pull a stock harasser w/ basilisk on top and I just internally groan. Like anything in this game, if you want to be successful you have to have the certs invested to be this way. Unfortunately, this leads to a big problem for the new harasser driver as it IS a big investment and alot of frustration if a guy and his friends are starting from scratch. Second, the solo harasser takes good instincts to pull off, youre easily screwed over by multiple tanks but if you can learn to choose your own battles (for which I feel the harasser excels at) and know when to pull out of situation and escape you will do fine. A group of harassers will absolutely tear if the teamwork is right, I run with one on a semi daily basis and we just about wreck anything in sight with the exception of maybe the best vanguard duo in the game (Literally #1+2 on the server for Vanguard AP kills and theyre in the same tank...they...just...dont...miss...).

    That meloncholy feeling you have about the 'good times' you had with a harasser. I have those every single day of this game. I rarely if ever die to infantry fire, I dont go near groups of em unless I take on a deployed sunde. I kill the tanks I intend to kill only flipping or unseen MBTs that jump me ever really destroy my harasser on a regular basis on that front. The air seems to be the only problem, and when I run w/ the harasser group we pull an AA buggy that literally tears even veteran pilots to shreds. I bet you the harassers you saw today that got owned in seconds ran right into the middle of the fight, so yea, they deserved it at that point. Stealth in, pick em off one at a time, get in, get out, get certs....
    • Up x 1
  12. MisterTwister22

    I surprisingly really like the canister(confetti cannon). I'd only prefer a slight increase to the magazine size. That's it. It is decent at killing infantry and also can 1 mag a harasser at close range.
  13. Sagabyte

    I got a thread on how to make it better. It gets range and accuracy and clip size at the cost of pellets per shot basically.
  14. Alarox

    I'm curious. To all you Harasser users, what is the MBT vs Harasser relationship usually like for you guys? How about Lightning vs Harasser?
  15. Sincore


    Speaking from a VS perspective, Prowler AP / HEAT within 100m is hit or miss depending on if they have a secondary gunner (halberd), usually not a problem if you drive decently and they don't plant themselves. Vanguards aren't really worth the effort unless you have cover to burn their shield or vulture a kill. MBTS are killable with the appropriate secondary but usually not worth the effort if they are 2/2 as it takes very little to kill the harasser.

    As for lightnings, Viper keep medium to long range and it is an easy kill. Heat is similar to Viper but a bit more dangerous as it takes only 3 shots to finish you off. AP is risky as they only need 2 shots, probably the hardest to kill of the 4 lightning types. Skyguards are a free kill in most situations. Really comes down to positioning as the rear shots really lower the ttk significantly.
  16. Aloysyus

    With the "as powerful as a tank" i meant that the term "harasser is overperforming" is a matter of perspective. Overperforming related to what? To the resources invested? As i said in the first post: Every other vehicle is "overperforming". The tank is easy certs if you can handle it, the Liberator is even more. So why should the Harasser be that weak?

    And about the certs: i hate to speak about myself like that as i am usually relaxed in these matters but i really am an experienced and good Harasser driver. I don't know what you call performing well but i had Harasser rounds about 1-3h without dying on a regular basis, making certs like Bill gates making money. So i understand this is in fact overperforming but i already admitted that and i also said that a nerf was needed - but it was overdone.

    My Harasser is fully certed, i really have everything you can wish for. And i met some old Harasser rivals lately when i was in a tank. Two well placed AP rounds, my gunner being decent - BOOM! he didn't even have the chance to escape. Okay, me and my gunner are better at aiming then the average but still there is my point: This Harasser driver was pretty good, too, but he had not a friggin chance. He was dead the moment we saw him.

    Again: I have no idea what you call performing well, i can't imagine what you are doing with the Harasser every day. But right know it is just possible to be extremely cautious and run at the first impact of damage. if you then run into just.. say... a heavy assult with a friggin ML7 - you are screwed. The Harasser is down to fast. When i am in an ESF and i want easy certs i don't go for the highest threat first, i go for the Harasser, because it is down in no time - with the nosegun. And when i am infantry and i see a Harasser i just unload a clip of my machine gun into it because i might get an assist or even the kill, just like randomly firing at ESFs because of that matter.

    So basically everyone who says he is performing well in a Harasser is either farming infantry from some crazy place or he is playing run and hide for the fun of it. But apart from that the Harasser is never your best chance, it is completely lacking a specific role.
  17. Aloysyus

    See, that is what i mean: A friggin' Skyguard should be no problem for ANY anti-tank-vehicle whatsoever. I mean come on. It is a Skyguard.
  18. ronjahn

    You keep saying the harasser has no role, but then repeatedly go on to explain its new role. The harasser is now a hit and run, opportunistic infantry and vehicle pest. Just as the name implies.

    Just because you do not like the harassers new role =\= it doesn't have a new role.

    I, just like many others who posted in this thread, have adjusted our play style and can still be successful and have an impact on a battle. I just got my auraxium on the Fury-H, all while soloing, within the span of one week. The entire time was spent in in close quaters, while supporting friendly infantry pushes(I even finished off quite a few MBTs, Lightnings, and other harassers) If you play smart it is actually easy to keep yourself alive.

    You also keep downplaying the importance of the recent turbo change and the ability to use FS. I can't count how many times this change has kept me alive.

    Do I miss the days of recklessly flying around an open field, destroying everything in our path? Sometimes. But then when I face a good harasser crew in my MBT, I remember why the nerf was desperately needed.

    It sounds like you just want your OP toy back and refuse to adjust your play style. All of this said, I think the harasser could use a VERY slight increase in staying power and fire power. And by slight, I really mean very minimal, but just enough to keep it alive a bit longer and have a bit more punch.(not pre-nerf or anywhere near pre-nerf levels)
  19. dstock

    Vanguard: Usually run, unless it's gift-wrapped (already smoking/on fire) or we have numbers. One Vanguard + anything else is enough to kill a Harasser now, before you can escape. Especially you two ;P

    Magrider: Depends on terrain, flank status (both ways), and whether they have a top gunner. FPC + Saron is 2 FPC shells and one mag of Saron, that happens quick. If we have booty shots on approach, I'll stick around and fight this one out.

    Prowler: I don't fight against Prowlers too often, but any deployed Prowler means run/flank, any undeployed Prowler depends if they have a gunner, and what gun is up top.

    TL\DR: The above is playing solo. With a group, the number of Harassers we have minus one is the maximum number of tanks I want to engage at one point. Things become especially dangerous when a buggy can get spiked out before the Harassers kill a tank. We have to play more cautiously now, but running Stealth and having FS or IRS plus Turbo does help. I agree with Alabammer, they over-did the Halberd nerf, and the ES AV are suffering, as well.

    As far as Lightnings go, if you trust your driver and have AV on top:
    HE - Free Kill
    HEAT - Should be easy points, if you stop to repair where the HEAT tank can see you, you'll probably lose an engi or the buggy.
    AP - Real threat, depends on user skill
    Skyguard - If you get flanked or caught repairing and let it sneak up on you, Skyguards are a threat. Otherwise, they're in between HE and HEAT for relative threat level, ie easy points.

    That's my own personal opinion. I've moved away from AV though, I have more fun playing AA these days.
    • Up x 1
  20. Aloysyus

    No i did not say that i want it back to how it was. I said it either needs a buff (not 100% to it's original state, though) or a change. All i am saying is that every other vehicle is way more powerful now and i don't understand why the harasser needed such a nerf while tanks, libs and esfs still perform ridiculously well. Hell, Libs got even buffed a while ago.

    So if you say a buffed Harasser would be OP then tanks and aircrafts are op, too. There is no logical reason to keep the other vehicles in it#s actual state and treat the Harasser like a piece of crap.

    And no, just because you can have a lucky Fury farm sometimes it does not mean that this is the new role. A Harasser has access to the halberd, to the Walker, to enforcer/saron/vulcan. And it should be able to use it properly. But when a clip of Gauss Saw can kill your Harasser it gets ridiculous. And the FS is very, very weak. Yes, it can save you sometimes but it does not change the fact that a Harasser is ridiculously easy and fast to kill by basically everything.