Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by MasterDk78, Aug 25, 2021.

  1. Gustavo M

    I actually tried to snipe recently with an alt... and I was surprised at to how effective (and stupidly easy) is to get shots (while not getting shot at). I even rushed a doorway like my balls were made of steel (Yeah, I miss duke nukem.) and kept cloaking and decloaking like I not give a damn. Frankly, I missed lots of shots (because I'm bad) but I haven't died once -- which Is the main subject of this convo that is how infs are broken as **** -- mostly because of clientside.
  2. Crayv

    Ultimately it is this. It isn't just BASR or the Infil class, it's those two things put together. If say Engies were the class with BASRs They wouldn't be NEARLY the problem as you could see them and counter snipe them the moment they pop out of cover. If infils only had semi-auto snipers it wouldn't be a problem as they would be exposed for a longer period while they fired multiple shots.

    The problem is when a cloak class can emerge from cover while cloaked, scan for choice targets, pop out of cloak just long enough to fire a single shot and retreat back faster than anyone can reasonably react. If you try to sneak up on them, well they have mines and motion sensors to see coming. Not to mention the rest of their team is gunning for you while you try to cover a hundred meters out in the open. Snipers normally are suppose to be in pairs, a sniper and a spotter: this game combines the two roles into one.

    If it was just as easy to do with a full auto weapon no one would play infil and would instead play LA or Engie for jetpack or infinite ammo. Those classes have to expose themselves to fire while they scan and aim for a target. Then the matter of BASRs:semi-autos/scout riles would be just as common as BASR if they were as good. The devs just basically admitted that they are the superior option by making new players of all factions start with them and it isn't like experienced players move up to semi autos. It is like the Commissioner to the Underboss: we all know which one is superior.

    I have tried it. It is stupid. Even if I miss every shot in my magazine I'm not really punished for it, which isn't the case for virtually any other class/weapon combo out there where missing basically means you die. When I do land shots it becomes obscenely rewarding for the risk involved.

    Having the ability to attack without any real risk of retaliation is generally a bad game mechanic. This also includes the Scorpion (yes I think that is OP as well, most people don't realize it yet).
  3. Sumguy720

    As someone who does a lot of counter-sniping this is just out of touch.

    First: Mines do not give you enough coverage. They can cover small areas on predictable paths but the number of times I've even SEEN an AI mine in a sniper nest are low, and most of the time I find them after killing the sniper.

    Secondly: A sniper that uses motion spotters has already given up their position and shouldn't last long. As a stalker I love when snipers put down minimap indicators telling me what area I need to search.

    Maybe people just don't understand the counterplay to snipers. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised considering you've suggested running over 100 meters of open ground as a possible strategy.

    Finally: If a sniper is supported by their teammates, IE, sniping from behind friendly lines, that's like one of the most obvious and easily avoidable nests. If you expose yourself to that kind of a position you're going to be taking sprays from 15 carbines in addition to any BASRs in the mix, the key is to just not expose yourself to those kinds of positions.
  4. OneShadowWarrior

    I think in the most recent NPE update they seemed to encourage sniping even more. Your a sitting duck with nanoweave now, the days of close quarter combat and good fire fights coming to a close.
  5. Tunashamed

    I've never made much of a Light Assault, but I have auraxed the SMG line, mostly as an infiltrator. Sneaking up on a bolter is a free kill. Sneaking up on a heavy can still result in a triple ding death for me if they're quick enough.

    There's two things I don't really get about the whole discussion. The first is that I've done CQC sniping and I greatly prefer the semi-autos. If I can land a head shot, then I can land the follow-up shot 98% of the time. And it happens so quick that no one even reacts.

    The second part I don't get is that I never find these magical positions where I'm not surrounded by enemies, crossfire, incoming grenades, and all the rest, and also not in a place where I'm going to get flanked within 60 seconds. Ok sure, bolters have an advantage in non-point blank corner peaking situations. But they have every disadvantage. I guess they can cross open terrain easier, but I do that on a Heavy and spam medpacks if I really need to. Also when I say "open" I don't mean a literal field.

    The only time I ever ********-redeploy over a CQC bolter is when they're part of a leet-fit and I know any attempt to flank them will just have me meet their 10k directive friends. Also I think the main reason they do it is for youtube likes. Everyone wants to be a quick-scope hero I guess.


    I'll also add an argument for nerfing CQC sniping, and its that the game feels kinda dumb with so many people playing snipers. I know it has no weight in the whole balance argument, its just bad vibes.
  6. Scroffel5

    I am disappointed that this post is still going. Guys, if you are in a situation where an Infiltrator is behind you and you get killed before they uncloaked, guess what? You would have died regardless because they were behind you and had a shot at your head. We all want to blame something or someone, we all want to live, but the truth of the matter is, you would have died anyways.

    This game is not Planetside 1. This class is not the same as Planetside 1. Do not compare it to it, because you will never get a Planetside 1 infiltrator in the game for the sole reason that it wasn't here to begin with.

    Does the cloak make it easier? Yes and no. It gives you a new sort of challenge. It gets you in and it gets you out, but it doesn't help you do anything in between. It helps you get into a position where you have the advantage, but if you screw up, there is little you can do even with your cloak. You may live, but the next time you do something, you are back in the same situation again, but now you are less advantaged than you were before.

    With regards CQC bolts, yeah I think they are busted. But why? Why is that? Its simple. You need to hit 1 shot, and with the rechamber the way it is now, you will have another shot ready by time they turn around. You are only disadvantaged against multiple enemies from multiple directions, people who outrange you, and whenever you miss. If they are looking away from you, you most likely can get another shot or two out at them. If they are looking at you, they are probably aiming, which means they are moving slower and it will be easier to hit their head. If they are running perpendicular to you, ok.

    Are snipers op? Honestly, I don't think so. They can most definitely feel that way, but there is literally nothing else you can give them or take away from them. Because of the damage models of this game, taking quite a few rounds to neutralize a target and quite a bit of time to do so in comparison to other games, having anything that one hits throws off that balance of those models. That means that there is quite literally nothing you can do defensively save moving erratically. With that said, one hit weapons don't automatically make you good. You not only have to not miss, but you have to hit the head, first try, and then get out of there. Now I see a lot of people saying that it is a really safe way to play. That is true ONLY IF you are at a far range, and at that point, you are losing out on the push you are giving in the battle. You guys are comparing the effectiveness of an Infiltrator using personal gain. Stop doing that. That is important, sure, but we also have to take in how an Infiltrator affects the battle.

    The farther you go out to snipe, the safer you are, but the less person gain you get and the less impact on the battle you have. You are only a real threat at long range if you are very good at the game, and at that point, why would you reward the Infiltrator who has gotten that good? The closer you get to your target, the less safe you are, but the better KPH you will have, only if you don't immediately die after missing your shots. You will die more, have more impact on the battle (of course using your other tools as well), probably get more kills (supposing you don't die a ton), but you are by no means safe. Therefore, if you are going to use the "Infiltrators are safe" argument, specify exactly what situations they are safe in.

    Another thing I am seeing a lot of is personal experience. Guys, personal experience changes. It is personal. Thats why it is called personal experience. You can use it and share it, but it doesn't make it a fact as to what will happen every time. You cloak and uncloak repeatedly and no one kills you? Well congrats, but I am pretty sure most people die in that circumstance. You die every single time you see an enemy? Oof, that sucks, but I am pretty sure most people don't.

    Now about sniping and cloaking, there is a good reason for that. Do you know what happens in a game when you are at long range, your position is compromised, you are sitting behind cover, and people are waiting to shoot you? You get shot. Y'know why? You can't get a read on the position of your enemies simply because you can't peak out without being shot at. I think that is probably one reason why ADS'ing while cloaked is in the game. You may say that it is unnecessary to be cloaked when you are at a far range, and for the most part, I agree, but that is only true while you aren't being actively looked for, and all of you know that when you are being looked for, you'd like to have that cloak to back you up. Plus, it allows you to check where enemies are from relative safety before uncloaking to shoot. Could the decloak be longer? Most definitely. Should there be a script in the game that outputs the average ping of all the players in a server to a console that devs can access and set the cloak based on what that script is saying, within reason and not automatically so that people don't catch on and lag switch themselves to make Infiltrators take longer to decloak? Most definitely.

    All of this shooting while cloaked nonsense is dumb. Don't make your point on balance and why Infiltrators are the plague of the universe based on an unintended mechanic due to the limits of online gaming. Instead, attempt to understand it and give reasonable ways to balance it. Of course that is not supposed to happen! If everything worked as it was intended, everyone would have 1 ping, everyone would work cohesively regardless of squad, and we would all sing campfire songs and eat smores around a burning Flash. Does that happen? Of course not! So what can we do the balance the cloaking? Make it easier to detect. We don't need more tools. Tools are dependent on whether you choose them or not, therefore limiting your options of play, and that is STUPID. Why should you force your players to choose one necessary tool to fight Infiltrators and solely Infiltrators over another tool for a wider range of uses? Every player shouldn't have to specialize. Make the decloak sound louder. Make it blip on the map. Make stationary Infiltrators easier to detect by eye. Make spotlights and headlights illuminate cloaked Infiltrators. Just do something logical, reasonable, and something Infiltrator mains can live with.

    "Snipers, snipers everywhere!!!!!" Are you sure you aren't being shot at by the same 2 or 3 players? Even so, why would you put yourself into a position where you get sniped at 24/7? In any case, you'd lose a lot of HP and any 2 or 3 people were shooting at you. And once you identify where a group of snipers is (which btw is stupid unless they are all in the same squad coordinating with other squads to take out specific enemy units), then flank them. You don't need to be an Infiltrator to kill an Infiltrator.

    How should we go about balancing CQC BASRS? Simply put, make them harder to use. That is literally the only thing you can do. Nerf the headshot multiplier, and you picked up a weapon for no reason. Buff the rechamber after that, and its just a semi auto so why pull a bolt? Nerf the damage, and you have the same problems as the previous two I mentioned. You can either take off all sights and you are only allowed to use irons (please hold for the backlash), make all sights sway, thereby making everything harder, but especially anything that didn't sway before, such as the 3x-4x scopes, make all Infiltrator weapons sway passively, such as the Amaterasu did (chalk it up to having to be smaller and weaker in exchange for stealth, meaning your weapons are harder to hold, also playing nicely into the -100 shield health thing), or just make the handling while moving within 1 second of scoping in absolutely bonkers.

    And to everyone saying that to survive snipers, just move, they are right and wrong. They are wrong because that doesn't necessarily mean you will survive. However, they are right too because if you move like a mad-man 24/7, you won't be picked as a target as much by snipers because you are too hard to hit. You'll also be keeping yourself on your toes more, so it will make you a better player to just say, "Oop, I'm about to get sniped." whenever something feels sus.

    And if you quit the game because you die to Infiltrators too much, gaming isn't for you. Don't let others dictate what you choose to do unless they give you good reason to do so.
    • Up x 1
  7. YellowJacketXV

    I must have a completely different mindset when it comes to Infils in this game. I honestly only enjoy seeing them run when they use all their recon abilities and flood the area with recon darts, motion detectors, EMP grenades, etc. To me, Infil has one of the most lackluster roles in the entire game because of how little impact it actually has on the scope of the gameplay. Infils can do a good job at one thing, and that's putting pressure on the line of battle. By setting up on a flank, any flank, you can rack up kills pretty nice as an infiltrator and force the line of battle to either adapt to you or remove you. It seems pretty strong, when used right it is, but it's efficacy decreases multiplicatively when you have a larger scale battle going on.

    To be frank, the infiltrator is countered by the medic. If you snipe as an infil your best bet to shoot away the stragglers because if you pop a guy's helmet in the middle of a huge firefight, chances are they're just going to be revived a literal second later with medic. You haven't really done anything that assists the flow of battle, you got a kill out of ~30 and now that single infantry is coming right back. You haven't even properly pressured anyone properly, you a kill. Granted if you're popping medics and engineers doing repairs that is a completely different story, but generally speaking you're going to become acquainted with HA's helmet shapes.

    If you're having a lot of problems with infiltrators, perhaps the problem is you veering too far from the group.

    CQC BASR in the hands of a skilled vet however...that thing scares me.
  8. That_One_Kane_Guy

    Full auto weapons are responsible for far more kills than bolt action rifles, and it's not even close. Skill balls like Recursion, Goblins and MERC don't run large numbers of Infils for a reason, and then usually only for the motion detection they provide more than anything else.
    You can pad your K/D with Infil, which would be cool if anyone cared what your K/D was.
    One weapon class being superior to another weapon class in this game is not exactly some shocking revelation. For the record, when played correctly semi-autos will be just as effective as bolt actions. It's only when people try to use them like bolt actions that their effectiveness drops. This is the reason why new players no longer get semi-autos as their first weapon choice.
    Do we? Which do you think it is?
    Please define for the group what exactly "obscenely rewarding" means, because I'll tell you right now that if you're sitting 200m away from any objectives netting sub-1KPM performances you're about as useful to anyone as **** on a fish, while the enemy team will likely not even bother responding to your presence unless someone cares to kit switch long enough to countersnipe you before moving on with their day.

    This is wrong with a capital "W". Motion spotting has possibly the single greatest impact on any fight up to a decently large scale. To put it bluntly: when I switch to another class after using Infil, more than anything else I miss my Recon Darts.

    No other class in the game has anything to bring to the table that comes close to the force multiplier this gadget represents. With it you can tell your entire team where the enemy is within a ~50m diameter, from range, with no ceiling cap (making them almost impossible to destroy), can have multiple active at a time, resupply them from an Engie pouch in seconds, and best of all: it's literally point and click, so the only reason for players of any skill level not to be using them effectively is if they forget they have it.
    • Up x 1
  9. Malbolshia

    A few ideas to rid the game of sniperside;

    Give cloak/decloak longer times
    Remove ADS while cloaking
    Reduce bolt dmg at close ranges
    Remove the ability to stay cloaked while taking fire.

    It may help QOL for any planetman that isnt an invisible one hit kill soldier.
    • Up x 2
  10. C4Cypher

    So ... yeah, the Seeker crossbow. Infils now have an explosive weapon without a magazine that hits harder than a Thumper.
  11. MasterDk78

    Thumper is a nice idea, but thats it, it really sux lol
  12. C4Cypher

    If the Thumper had the accuracy and the range of a battle rifle ... you'd have the Seeker with Fracture bolts