Sniper rifle muzzle velocities and "the hell..."

So, I decided to "challenge" myself like that albino dude in "Da Vinci Code" and pick up the old 99SV of the TR infiltrator.
It's a bad weapon. There's no way around it. I honestly couldn't find any situation where it'd be good at. Medium range is the only one that comes to mind but SMG's have given me more luck in those areas.
So I decided to check into the stats of this weapon and discovered a rather unsettling trend with regards to sniper rifles.
They have abhorrently low muzzle velocities. I mean some actually have LOWER velocities then close range assault rifles. Lower the the TAR and TRV, lower then the H-V45. And those are close quarters weapons (strange trend also follows longer range ARs)
I honestly can't figure out how this is possible. But I did find my answer to how some people with CQB AR's are practically full-auto "sniping" at long ranges.

Of course I know that bullet drop is very much tied to muzzle velocities. Faster the velocity, flatter the trajectory seems to be the rule. But I was honestly surprised to realize it was THIS bad for sniper rifles. I also remember that at some point way back when (early launch, end of beta) bullet drops were tweaked so on non sniper rifle weapons there was LESS drop. I can only guess this was achieved by boosting velocities of these weapons.
You also kinda can't just boost SR velocities in big chunks as then the differences between them would be blurred even more (between the various tiers) so using your 100 cert one is just as effective as the 1000 cert one.

So my question for discussion is: Should the velocities of sniper rifles be increased to be more effective at longer ranges? They are sniper rifles, after all. Or maybe decrease the velocities of other weapons? Because they are NOT sniper rifles. Or, in case of separate statistics for drop and velocity, should sniper rifles be tweaked to have higher velocities while retaining their drop? Because.... balance? I dunno, Discuss.

And SOE still wants to nerf sniper rifles.

i assume you mean nerfing them by making it so NW doesn't mean anything anymore and still giving snipers a 300m OHK option?


on topic I think a few of the rifles could use a little boost, mostly though I find my self shooting at stationary or predictable targets so its never that much of an issue.

Yes, and reducing the limits of other rifles. And before you say "infantry renders at 300m," why do you think there even is a limit, if infantry cannot be shot from < 300m? (Although this is SOE after all, so maybe it was just overlooked. )

when render range is extended you can start to debate increasing that limit, as it is now it should just read "render range" why set it at a number over the range that damage can even be done at?

The problem I most have with this is the "medium range" snipers. Basically the standard semi autos. They are at a spot where you simply can't have a good situation reliably.
Not to mention the logic issue here with these being the Designated Marksman Rifles. Meaning they are supposed to be effective at ranges just outside of normal squad firearms but not great at long range sniping.
I honestly believe that non-SR weapons are just a tiny bit too effective at long range. Especially since they are rarely fired in semi automatic or bursts. People have a lot of success with spraying even at long range. So I believe the better option here is to go kinda both ways. Tone down the velocities of other weapons just so very slightly while buffing the velocities of long range weapons ever so slightly. The changes can be minimal on an individual level, but considering both sides get moved in the opposite directions the effect will be that much more noticeable.

But when you look at it from the range angle, you realize that this game has a serious issue with range compression. Everything happens at relatively short distances. Sniper rifles are rarely used at bellow 500m (not speaking PS2 terms here). Assault rifles are generally considered effective up to 200m(also not PS2 terms). In PS2, "long range" is roughly 300m. You have to fit everything from a shotgun to a sniper rifle into that bracket. And making non SR small arms shorter range would compress the majority armaments even further into a mess where these velocity differences are minimal at best so in the end whichever you take makes little difference.

It is a tricky bit of balancing when you look at it from a more "bigger picture" standpoint. But the devs apparently have a massive backlog of balance tweaks collected ever since O:MFG started but kept on hold because of it. Maybe this will be addressed with those. One can hope, but doesn't mean we can't discuss.

Render range will NEVER be increased for infantry. That would up the resources needed to play the game and sewer the PS4 plans for the game and all the work they spent during OMFG to shoehorn the game into the box the PS4 requires it live in.

There are three tiers of Bolt action rifle and a semi-auto that use a 6x stock scope up to a 12x.

The differences in velocity/bullet drop are countered by reload and rechambering speeds. For example, using the 1st tier at 300m will be very difficult to compensate for with the bullet drop, and using the third tier within 100-200m will have a longer reload and rechamber which makes all the difference at closer ranges. The performance update coming hopefully tuesday will I feel bring out these differences even more, which is a great move.

The third tier, Parrallax/Longshot/RAMS-50 are very effective at 300m without compensation, I feel their muzzle velocity is fine. You have to remember that with all the rifles, although the bullets velocity may be the same or even lower than some of the guns available to other classes, it is travelling a much greater distance whilst maintaining that velocity. Velocity is only measuring the speed of the bullet, not the range it can travel.

The semi auto in my opinion is best used with a suppressor at medium to shorter range. For me It fills a very small niche, which is essentially when you want to scope and use the power of a sniper rifle at a range JUST outside of the effectiveness of the Iron sight rifles. Some snipers however, especially over the last few months with the 'nanoweave nightmare' have found the double tap headshot to be an effective alternative to bolt actions.

It wouldn't surprise me if we saw more additions to the Semi Auto sniper rifles in the future as opposed to the bolts. However, remember the Vanu have less bullet drop on their semi auto's as a faction trait, so that could become a "balance" issue at some point.

I haven't used my XM98 in months, but I remember it doing well at any range, close or long

Yeah, that 99SV is a joke. Idk how people manage to get 3 Headshot hits in while im moving and in very rapid succession. The kick on that gun even with that stabilization thing going pretty much makes the gun in capable of being that effective lol.

But if it is at the maximum distance which infantry can be shot, then why even give it a limit? Nothing would change for that rifle.

That is all well and good. I am all for even MORE difference between the tiers of different infiltrator rifles. BUT. The problem I currently see is that the velocities of sniper rifles are met and even surpassed by weapons NOT for long range encounters. It'd be easy to simply say "the bullets must go faster" but simply pumping up all sniper rifles' velocities would negatively impact their diversity.

I have also been led to believe that muzzle velocity directly determines the drop of a bullet. Of course VS has weapons that are exceptions to this rule. So maybe there is a separate stat to every weapon, determining just how big the drop is over range, regardless of velocity. But last I checked bullets didn't lose their velocity the longer they travel. So the standard T1 Cycler at 580m/s for the medic will technically be easier to hit a target with over range then the 99SV at 550m/s (hitting, not killing), and the SABR-13 with it's 600m/s (before HV ammo) will be on par with SR-7 as far as velocity goes (again: hitting, not killing).
Of course if the velocity of a bullet fired dropped drastically over range, we'd have a whole different argument with the sniper rifles being less effective at the more closer edge of the medium range but more effective at the longer end of medium because it retains it's velocity further with at long the SR still having relatively fast velocities but the other weapons being really slow.
But that point would be moot since, again, range compression. Infantry combat very rarely takes place further then 250m-300m and at those distances even if your 580m/s dropped to 300m/s at 150m, you'll still hit the target.

Also, Tuesday? I thought it was on Wednesday if at all.

Because smart coders re-use code and tweak one number instead of making special cases everywhere

Sure, sure. But what about BEFORE the limit?

Infantry can be shot from beyond 300m, if they're on a Flash, or an Engi Turret. They do not render, but the turret/flash does.

I've killed targets from beyond 300m quite a few times. So yes, 300m cap does serve a purpose, it means that unfortunately I cannot kill with those shots anymore.

The only headshots you can make on the 99SV are those stationary and too slow to react after the first head shot (It takes 2 headshots), I've only ever done it twice. The main reason why I don't use my 99SV more is that even when you're holding your breath, there is still a bit of sway that makes it near impossible to hit targets at further ranges.

I would suggest giving it the option of a lower zoom optic to complement its DMR-ness, that way you could have more of the aggressive infiltrators that people want on the frontlines.

Before they probably shared the same code as every other weapon. Meaning that to implement a limit they probably had to create a new weapon category.

This can't be done, it would make the KSR-35 redundant, because it's basically the 99SV with optics between 1x and 4x. Apart from that, the only difference in stats is that the KSR-35 has an even lower muzzle velocity

With that said, the 35 is a great weapon.

In that case so have I. I'm not going to lie; I have no understanding of the technical limitations.

But thanks for proving a point. That proves that it is indeed a nerf even to the Longshot/Rams/Polaris(?), as not every target dies in one hit, as oppose to any target from any distance assuming no nanoweave.

If so, then we're just running in circles.

No, it really isn't a nerf. when was the last time that these type of shots where more then a "look what i can do" moment? the AV mana turret is going to have it range reduced to 300m as well, so its not like you need to be able to shoot them and kill them in one shot from a range where they cant even see you. all comments like the one you ware making show, is that dedicated snipers are unreasonable.