[Suggestion] Slight Nerf to Stalkers

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Scroffel5, Nov 13, 2019.

  1. Scroffel5

    I propose we nerf stalkers by making their cloak slightly more visible when you are crouched and standing still. As of now, the only way to pick out a stalker is by darklight flashlight. They also usually don't die unless they make a mistake. If they don't make a mistake, theoretically they could live forever. The mistake they usually make is going to shoot one person and then another person sees them and kills them. That is what I have seen anyways.

    This nerf will make Stalkers easier to detect. I like stalkers and I like to stalk my prey, but in the end, even I can recognize it is unfair. There have been countless times where I was being chased or I was chasing someone, and they just go into deep cloak after they shoot you. You know they are there, but you don't know where, and without a darklight, you can't do anything about it.

    Comment your thoughts below.
    • Up x 1
  2. LodeTria

    Stalkers are useless they don't more nerfs.
    • Up x 2
  3. IVANPIDORVAN

    Did you know what enemy players have minor collision, so you can just sprint along walls and corners. Sooner or later u gonna bump in to this pesky cloaked scum. Also use blindfire, corners in the first place, there is not so many places where they can hide. In addition, I tuned game sound so I could hear the footsteps
    I never use flashlight and i never had any problems with stalkers. 99% of them are just noobs, only stalkers who use blackhand can be dangerous, from time to time.
  4. Scroffel5

    Oh cool. Sometimes I see a Stalker shooting my team, I shoot at them with my sniper and only get a body shot, they cloak, I go to the area to look for them and I EMP the area, I get nothing, I try to bait them into shooting me, and they don't come out until I walk by, then they shoot me. That gets annoying when you do it every day.

    Eh, I can see what you are saying. If used in a squad and used properly, they can be killing machines.
  5. IVANPIDORVAN

    Thats the primary role of stalkers - to counter nonstalker cloakers. Funny way of cannibalism. You know what longrange snipers can be annoying, hunt them down as stalker is the easiest and sometimes the only possible way of counter them. Ofc u can countersnipe, i even have separate heavy assault loadout armed with battle rifle and resist shield (just to survive headshot from bolt-action sr), but if there is more than one camping me, i just switch to stalker and going on hunt. Just try other classes. Because there is a rule, the further you go away from battlefield, the more pepega snipers you gonna meet, some of them not even move between shots, some of them not even use cloak. You are not the one of that sort of players don't you? I hope so. As i said, at least try not to be a long range sniper
  6. LodeTria

    A SMG/CQC bolter infiltraitor will be far more useful to a squad as they can actually kill stuff that's attacking their squad, rather than waiting for the oppertune time to strike, which might be when half your squad is gone.
  7. Scroffel5

    I guess I could spray around to try to hit them, yeah.

    You haven't seen videos of a full stalker squad, have you? That is what I was talking about. They are deadly! They sit in a room and take out everyone who walks in, then they move and recloak.
  8. LodeTria

    Oh you're using meme videos for actual balance. lol
    If they was a full squad of Heavies + medics they could still kill any stragglers that walk in.
    • Up x 1
  9. iStalk

    Lol all of your post is nerf this nerf that. So in other words nerf everything that kills you.
  10. Scroffel5

    Noted.

    Yeah, no. I am saying that Stalkers can be great when used properly. Your point is correct. A specialzied squad can do anything they set their minds to. I am just saying if you have a group of Stalkers in one room, and someone walks in, they are going to get absolutely destroyed. No one knows they are there until the first guy gets murdered, and then people just start shooting at walls and using darklights, waiting to be massacred. I am not arguing balance on the basis of a "meme video." I was just using that as an example of a place where a Stalker squad isn't useless.

    Now, if you are going to give someone a cloak that lasts forever, but the ONLY downsides are that you have to stand still for it to recharge and you lose your primary weapon, what is the balance? I mean, just use a Commissioner. Go on a killing spree. What I liked to do was sit behind enemy lines and take out important targets, like Engineers. That was what I was doing yesterday at a player base we couldn't take. That is simply not good enough. I think that from a balance point of view and a game logic point of view that the cloak should have a decreased quality. I don't get how movement would mean you could recharge the cloak, so gamewise, the technology would make more sense if it sacrificed quality for quantity.
  11. Scroffel5

    I mean, I could change my posts to buff this, or buff that, if you'd like. I mean, I asked for buffs to the Flash and Infiltrators, and I also asked for nerfs to the Infiltrators and C4. These are all just suggestions, probably suggestions that won't be taken into consideration, so why do you care what I post about? I have also asked for buffs to medics before and I have also asked for new weapons. I have even asked for the community to make changes to the way we play the game and the way we run squads. What else do you want me to do?

    (I bet you are gonna say stop posting. You may not do it now that I brought it to your attention, but thats psychology for you.)
  12. iStalk

    No I find it entertaining. Especially when asking for new features knowing that planetside has a skeleton crew now.
  13. Scroffel5

    Yeah, I know. Its just nice to put those ideas out there. Its like a placebo effect. There is a problem you see, and you put your ideas out there like it will change something, but it won't. There will never be a bow, or a class specific ability to replace the Wraith, no balances to my boy, the Infiltrator, no specialized squads, no increased teamplay, no camaraderie.
  14. That_One_Kane_Guy

    Disclaimer: I don't play Stalker, but I hunt and kill them frequently enough to have a good idea what I'm talking about.

    Nope, sorry. Stalkers are already barely useful as it is. They have limited combat capability and by far the most useful thing a Stalker can do is hack a vehicle terminal and pull a Sunderer. Their one saving grace is the ability to hide and that is at the mercy of visual glitches, audio cues, even an equipment counter.

    Stalkers are dangerous only in larger battles when there are other things to distract players from the subtle tells that reveal that they are there. Even then they are no more dangerous than a sniper or light assault would be and are more vulnerable once they have revealed themselves.

    This is true for many things in Planetside 2. However, an argument for a nerf it is not.

    Stalkers don't need to be easier to detect. If the Stalker does nothing, then yes he is practically "un-detectable", but he is also useless. If, however, it does something, whether that is hacking a terminal/generator/turret, killing an enemy, etc. then he reveals his location to anyone paying attention. This happens through the minimap, through audio cues, or even visually.
    At that point if said person(s) should decide to investigate, the Stalker has to choose either to move quickly and risk visual detection, stay put and risk detection by Darklight or contact, or some combination of the two. Either way it is nowhere near as cut-and-dried for Stalkers as you might think.

    If you really are having so much trouble with Stalkers just take advantage of the fact that they are the only class with an attachment that specifically counters them, throw a Darklight on your pistol and be done with it.

    The same is true of a squad of Heavy Assaults with Candy Cannons, or a squad of Engineers with Archers, or a squad of morons that can follow instructions. Teamwork is OP.
    • Up x 1
  15. Scroffel5

    Yes, I get what you are saying, but for most of the things that can get you caught a Stalker involve you killing someone or exposing yourself by hacking or callouts. The biggest one there is killing someone. Someone has to die or almost die for anyone to know where the Stalker is, if you aren't using a Darklight. I believe that there should be a trained way of picking out Stalkers if you are paying attention, not just having to rely on a Darklight if they don't do anything. Someone shouldn't have to die or the stalker shouldn't have to make a mistake to die. In war, you are never safe, and if you are in a cloak and haven't caused trouble for yourself, you are "safe." I say "safe" because random Planetside 2 stuff can happen and you can just randomly die, like randomly being ran over by a random vehicle, or a random grenade toss, or an accidental shot. Otherwise, there is no way of telling a stalker is in the area.

    If you get the jump on someone and can aim, you will probably kill your enemy before they can react or you have done enough damage for it not to matter. That is the way I see it.

    The other classes can do everything right and still die. I play Infiltrator a lot, and when I first started, I played Stalker and Stalker only. If no one had a Darklight, you would have to wait for the Infiltrator to overexert before you could kill him. Otherwise you have to buy a darklight. Regular Hunter cloak has a "fuse." It'll run out. Stalkers won't. You could stay alive indefinitely.
  16. Demigan

    I would prefer new detection methods.

    The Medic for example definitely needs some love as it's the least used class out there. You could give it a detection machine that fires a visible pulse in a 45 degree cone in front of the Medic that will pass through walls and obstacles. Anyone caught in the pulse will receive a wire-frame that is visible through walls. The wire-frame sticks 10 seconds to the point where that person (or vehicle) was scanned so players can move away from it. The scan gives a momentary idea of the positions and locations of enemy units so your allies can engage them.
    Because the pulse is visible enemies know when they've been scanned and need to move, for a Stalker this can be a problem, making it easier for players to find and detect him (or a smart Stalker to know someone is about to look there so they can relocate and ambush them anyway). For other enemies it's less of a problem. It allows Medics to help with breaching a chokepoint by revealing the locations of enemies prematurely, or locate potential attackers as they approach a defended area (or helps the enemies see the pulse and work out where the Medic must be standing).

    I would love this kind of feature on the LA as well. The goal of behind the lines chaos and support would be ideally suited for the LA.


    Smoke grenades, especially the LA version, can also be helpful. I've always held the idea that smoke grenades should be made more useful by making enemies that pass through it glow (not shine a light like a beacon, glow). This helps punish players who turn off smoke a bit as they don't realize they are more visible and also makes smoke grenades more useful a tool without requiring heat vision equipment or implants. This again can be used to locate cloaked units.

    An explode-on-contact grenade with low damage potential could also be useful. We used to have them at Halloween except that these grenades sucked balls because you couldn't throw them quickly. I would imagine that such grenades would be cheap, say 10 resources each, you can carry a lot of them at a time and you can throw them quickly. Let's start with quicknife speed and see how that works first. Such grenades would allow you to quickly saturate an area with low damage AOE to locate a cloaker but at a cost. Outside of cloaker location you could use them to flush out enemies behind cover, finish a wounded enemy or keep their shields down.
  17. TRspy007

    Probably the first time I respect and agree with your point lol.

    Besides being able to remain invisible forever and troll points isn't skilled play, if it can be considered play at all. Planetside 2 is a FIRST PERSON SHOOTER, not a hide and seek simulator.
  18. Scroffel5

    And now I'm starting to question making this post. If TRspy007 agrees with me, I must have said something stupid.... Nah, I'm just kidding. Thanks for the comment.

    I am not opposed to this. I think that the Smoke Grenades should really mess with a cloak. Like it tries to glitch out because it the smoke is surrounding them and its making an easy to see outline because it can't combat it, like a watery outline on an invisible person. I like your idea.
    • Up x 1
  19. That_One_Kane_Guy

    You don't need a Darklight to see cloaked infils in this game. If you know what to look for you can spot them especially if they move or shift in any way. The only time you run into trouble is if they are completely stationary and running Deep Cloak, but if they commit to that they are vulnerable to a Darklight.

    If you aren't causing "trouble" for the other team it is fair to say they can safely ignore you as you are obviously no threat to them.

    This is true regardless of the class you are playing. All things being equal the one to shoot first usually wins, but I would argue that for the Stalker the chances of getting turned on by your target are greater than most, since their weapons are more restrictive and their margin for error is smaller.

    Other classes can also kill faster, kill more often, and overall are just more dangerous in the hands of a skilled player.

    Stalker is a class designed around hacking in a game where hacking is extremely limited, and stealth in a game where the acts of hacking, capping, cloaking/decloaking, or even spotting enemies can reveal you to the enemy. While for combat they have to rely on killing isolated enemies and hope no one sees them do it, since they are restricted to sidearms in a game full of enemies who can fly, heal and shield themselves. I haven't even started on motion detection and the fact that a single infil with detector darts can literally blanket an entire base in about 30 seconds and uncover the shenanigans of every single Stalker in the area.
  20. Scroffel5

    Well DUH if they move you can see them. DUH! I didn't think I needed to mention that!

    If you aren't causing "trouble" yet for the other team, it doesn't mean that you aren't a threat. It means you aren't a threat yet. You shouldn't have a free pass from death just because you aren't doing anything. I use that term loosely because there are still random events that can happen and will probably kill you on accident.

    Yes, getting the jump on someone will most likely lead to you killing them. This is true. The thing is, every other class can't sit in the same spot without being spotted and get the jump on you. I usually don't get surprised by someone ingame. I usually know they are there and that I am going to lose the fight. The thing with Stalkers is that you have no way of knowing unless they killed someone else or you spotted them, and if they are standing still and doing nothing for the time being, you won't know they are there.

    I'm not saying that Stalkers are supremely OP and need a nerf because they kill too much too fast. I am saying it because if they don't go through some weird lag spike everytime they engage someone or they can't aim, they are most likely going to guarantee a kill until they overexert themselves. Thats why the KDR of Stalker Infiltrators are so high. I am not saying that KDR is the only thing that matters, because there is also KPM. They have high KDR and low KPM. You have less SPM too. Stalkers aren't this cert grinding machine, but they shouldn't be safe just because they are standing still.

    Yes, any other class can get the jump on you and secure the kill, but Stalkers are one of the only ones who can stay hidden after they get the kill. Yes, it is harder to use just secondaries against your victims, but when paired with the fact that you can bail if things go bad and that you will get the jump on 99% of your targets, that simply doesn't do it.

    Stalkers aren't a big big issue in balance, but making the cloak more visibly while in deep cloak gives a quantity vs quality effect. They could give a buff to them to balance this out, if it becomes too big of an issue. If we make the cloak worse, we can give the Infiltrator better things to compensate. What if we had Infiltrator specific secondaries or something? I already suggested bows. Maybe you could be allowed a certain class of primary weapons made specifically for the Infiltrator to balance being easier to see if you are paying attention. The point is that if we take away the quality of the cloak, we can add more quality to the class, a shift if you will.

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