Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by TheMightyQ, Mar 7, 2015.

  1. TheMightyQ

    Ok so it's been a while since I last played PS2 and the Skyguard got nerfed really really hard. I am not sure how a Lib survives almost 70 rounds of my clip with a weapon that was designed to take out aircraft's real easy not only that but the Lib was right in front of me as well doesn't it suppose to do 2x the damage? At less buff up the fire rate on it jesus.
  2. NinjaKirby


    The thing is, when you pull an AP MBT to combat another AP MBT, you're on level footing, if you're both 2/2 or 1/2 manned.

    If you are getting #rekt by an ESF, you can pull an ESF and generally be on level footing (if you have similar skill, because we know how ****** Air combat can be if you are against a BR100 flight expert and you are not).

    If you are getting obliterated by a Liberator from the skies, you can pull a Liberator yourself armed with Tank Buster (Lol, Tank buster against Aircraft), and you can drive a whole magazine into it and then smash yourself into them. Generally they die (and perhaps yourself, but hey, the annoying Lib is taken out).

    But if you pull a dedicated AA ground vehicle against a Liberator, you're ******.

    Their TTK against you is less then a few seconds if they hit you with the Tank buster and/or Dalton (ignoring all your Skyguard pew pew you throw at them).

    Your TTK against them is astronomically massive by comparison, and you'd better have a Base Garage nearby if you want to avoid their attack run.

    So you need multiple Skyguards. Coordinated attack to destroy a single Liberator, which to be fair can be manned by up to 3 people.

    Unless you've hit the ESF skill ceiling and are MLGpro, you need at least 2 ESF's to down one as well imo.

    I think the Liberator needs a weakness exception. Doesn't have to be a ground based weapon, but the Liberator is like a Sunderer with Blockade except you can't even C4 it (exaggerated example) since it's a flying Sunderer MBT hybrid thing.

    So what does this leave me with... I have no bluddy idea. Apart from Liberators are annoying.

    Actually, AP MBT's (apart from Magriders I guess...) are quite good against Liberators. If you can get the inclination of your vehicle to match that of a Lib directly above (who is fortunately not choosing to Dalton you to **** and back again). If you attack from the side there is a lot of Drop and travel time to account for...

    TL;DR I don't have a TL;DR because I don't know what I'm trying to say, apart from maybe a new type of Anti Air Weapon similar to AP MBT weaponry *Shrugs*

    EDIT: Or as OP suggests, just buff the Skyguard, lel
    • Up x 4
  3. Liewec123

    what skyguard NEEDS:
    a velocity buff.
    a drastically smaller cone of fire.

    it is ridiculous when you're farting bullets all over the sky and hitting absolutely nothing even though you're aimed right at the enemy (or leading it if its moving)
    as of now a Walker harasser is a far better AA choice,
    or want to completely shut down the sky? dual walker blockade sunderer with a friend!
  4. PrimePriest

    Libs need to be punished more for mistakes. Dumbfire rocket launchers need to do way more damage to Libs. I'm thinking Shrike (or whatever TR/VS equivalent) should bring it to burning. Decimator should be merciless OHK. If Lib gets hit by dumbfire that means he was too busy farming to maintain situational awareness - in any other vehicle you get punished by death. Tank cannons are fine on 2-hit kill, because they're fairly easier to use than dumbfire rockets.

    I don't know about Skyguard though.
  5. Auzor

    Pilots hate flak, pilots hate lockons.. "no skill" weapons.
    Ok, fine.
    Let's give the following a "walker" weapon: high rate of fire, direct damage only, etc
    -Heavy, instead of lockon, can take a "minigun" that deals AA damage between an LMG and the sundy walker.
    -Maxes: option for a 1-2x walker
    -Skyguard: double walker. Still not enough dps probably. But at least the "no skill" argument goes away because you need to get direct hits.
    From here, we can balance the weapons to kill instead of deter.
    • Up x 2
  6. qquqq

    air dosn't want to die to ground they only want to farm them, and all the "pro" pilots are on the redit forums, so air = op
    if you ask me, if instant death is good enough for the ground its good enough for the sky,
    • Up x 4
  7. _itg

    Liberators and Galaxies are the worst examples in the game of vehicles that don't scale properly with fight size. They NEED to be that durable to have any change of survival in a large-ish fight, but they're utterly indestructible in a small one.

    There is one thing the devs could do to make things a tiny bit better, and that's to buff the skyguard's close-range damage against libs by a lot, while leaving mid-range and long-range damage the same. This at least could prevent them from face-tanking the flak in order to one-clip a skyguard with the tankbuster, while not excluding libs from the entire hex.
    • Up x 2
  8. Jawarisin

    No No No. The problem is, AA scales exponentially hard. And a lib, let's remind everybody, is a multi-manned vehicle. I'm not to point that 2 players>1, but it's not supposed to be a flash either.

    The problem with AA right now is the range, someone can hit you beyond your render distance, from over 1000m away. That means, that anybody in a 1000m and more radius can shoot you. So, it's not like once you get away from a fight you're safe, the other fight beside can be shooting you just because of the sheer range of AA.

    Not only that, but it does serious damage and its pretty skill-less. I was in a 3 man lib (me the pilot, and 2 friends gunners) and we happened to "pass" over 3 skyguards that had just obliterated 2 other tanks (because yes, skyguards damage is strong even against vehicle or infantry). We couldn't get away, and by "away" I mean like 50-75 meters away. We got obliterated on the spot.

    A skyguard can usualy kill a lib if they aren't being incompetent. Provided you keep awareness and don't get too close to big lib-cover, there's nearly no way a liberator can get at you and kill you before you kill him.
    What usually happens is people aren't watching around, and then get surprised when they get blown up. It could of been a c4 fairy, no difference, it was a lack of awareness.

    Let's also not forget that what air targets first isn't ground, it's other air. It's not like there's ONLY AA to look out for. There's skyguards, A2G (ap prowlers, decimators), lock ons, base turrets, and any kind of aircraft (except the valk which is a cert piniata joke).

    I'm welcoming you to gun/pilot my lib though, if you want to feel the AA, I've got just about everything on it unlocked, and most of it maxed. I'm always interested in people claiming that they want a skyguard buff. I want to see how long do they last in a liberator, because usually they don't last a second. But they still complain about it.
  9. Demigan

    Or they add more scales, such as skillful AA weapons to compensate. For example: Primary MBT AA canons, Viper style canon, little to no drop, not too fast shells, no flak. 3 shot=ESF kills. Due to slow shell speed it's tough hitting ESF repeatedly, and it won't be the best against long-range targets. It will still be incredibly powerful against Liberators and Galaxies who are easier to hit. Both still have options to evade the shells if they stay at range but at closer ranges the MBT will be very powerful, so Liberators will still be able to escape, but if they first do a Tankbuster run they run a giant risk of being killed faster than the Tankbuster can kill them due to longer effective range.
  10. AssaultPig

    liberators just need to do less damage; if they didn't routinely kill ground vehicles in a matter of seconds it would be no problem for them to be more survivable

    the status quo is that ground basically has to have massed AA at all times, or else be at the mercy of any liberator that happens to pass by. Which sucks for the lib because it basically just has to run from massed AA, and sucks for the AA players because once all the air runs away there's nothing to shoot
    • Up x 2
  11. AssaultPig

    err, how long do you think a vehicle should be able to survive if it just wanders into field of fire of three enemy vehicles? A lib that just floats 50m over three skyguards should get demolished

    a single skyguard should basically never kill a competent liberator; at best you can force them to run away, assuming they aren't able to sneak up and tankbuster you
    • Up x 2
  12. Jawarisin

    That's the problem, you're assuming that the skyguard is the only one in the continent. You don't realise that that lib had 2 mossies on him, another AA turret, a walker harasser following him around, as well as AP prowlers shelling his face. You don't realise that the heavy standing beside your lightning shot a dumbfire and did 50% of the liberator.

    But here, if you really think its as simple as "not hovering", I just extended an invitation, and I dare you to take me up on it.
  13. AssaultPig

    okay, let's say all this is happening; what should be the fate of the liberator that's being chased by two ESFs, an enterprising AA harasser and happens to fly over a skyguard or two (apparently low enough that infantry can hit it with dumbfires)? What should the outcome of that situation be?

    it seems relatively noncontroversial to me that a liberator should not be able to survive incoming fire from 4-5 other vehicles!

    I actually don't really think AA needs a buff; I think that the A2G and AA should both be toned down a bit, and then aircraft could be made more survivable. The current lethality of A2G (especially liberators) requires that AA also be extremely lethal
    • Up x 1
  14. Jawarisin

    In the scenario I described, the guy would die in .1 - .2 seconds. Simply the tank shell+dumbfire would instagib it in fact. But this might happen over time. Or a simple scenario, a mossie fighting you, a skyguard on the ground shooting you at the same time. You are screwed.

    But once again:

    Just reply to that thread.
  15. ColonelChingles

    You should be screwed. Because you are heavily outnumbered.

    I mean you had one Liberator... against two ESFs, 3 Skyguards, an AA turret, an AA Harasser, and more than one AP MBT trying to kill it? Of course it should die! If it didn't instantly disintegrate against such a force, then the Liberator would indeed be overpowered.

    On the one side you had a Liberator, filled with 3 people and costing 450 nanites. On the other side you have at least 10 people in vehicles that cost at least 2,800 nanites. That Liberator had over three times the number of people shooting at it who paid over 6 times the nanite cost to do so.

    And you still don't expect the Liberator to die?

    Even in the case of a ESF and Skyguard shooting you, you're still in a 1v2 situation against vehicles that are meant to counter you. You still ought to die relatively quickly.

    I mean if I was running around in my Skyguard against two ESFs, 3 AP Lightnings, an AV turret, an AV Harasser, and two AP MBTs all gunning for me... do you think I should live? Have a chance at all?

    If not, why a single Liberator?
    • Up x 2
  16. task_master

    So you're saying that the liberator (up to 3 people) is being attacked by at least 6 people, plus all the people in the AP prowlers, while moving slow enough and going in the firing angle for all of them at once?

    What do you think happens to a tank that gets attacked by 2 lights, a spear phalanx, an ESAV harasser following him around, a HA, and all the infantry AV in the area?

    Or a harasser that gets attacked by 8 flashes?

    I could go on, but you should understand by now.
    • Up x 1
  17. Jawarisin

    I wonder if it's just general stupidity. I just named plenty of cause, but there's literally only one, or two of those needed to kill a lib. If you fly too low, bam tank shell usually kills you. You don't even need anything else.

    I can't believe it, this looks like general stupidity. please read the other posts I made, That's just PLENTY of causes, but as I said, it could be one, two or three of those. You really only need one to kill a liberator. A lib flying too low, bam tank shells and it dies.
  18. Alarox

    You just described A2G.

    Conversely, if the Lib doesn't fly too low, it can wipe out all of those tanks without repercussions.

    You act like when you go out hunting MBTs you're at the disadvantage. It's hilarious.

    Your job is to find someone who can't fight back, then go **** on them with the strongest weapons in the game.

    But when those people get fed up with being unable to fight back and stop playing in order to use AA, apparently you're the victim.
    • Up x 4
  19. Jawarisin

    Just for you. I dare you.
  20. MAXArmar

    Exactly, the best thing you can do to counter air is just to solo-pull a Blockade sundy with dual Walkers. You empty 1 walker, hit reload, switch seat to second walker, empty that, reload, move back to first seat etc. etc. On top of that, a sundy only costs you 200 certs and is more durable. If you go engineer you can just place a spitfire somewhere to warn you for C4 fairies and deploy to resupply these.