Skyguard Vs Liberator...

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Dreez, Mar 16, 2015.

  1. Dreez

    A Skyguard costs 350 Nanites.

    A Liberator with Buster/Dalton/Whatever isn't specialized at anything, its killing everything.

    A few days ago i was gunning for a Liberatorpilot, we completely nuked everything.. 1shotting ESFs with Dalton,
    2 shotting tanks. Skyguards are so little threat that you just turn around on them and swoop in with Buster+dalton
    and they're gone.

    The only thing that can kill a Liberator, is another equally good Lib, or a swarm of ESFs.
  2. quatin

    I believe this is the way it is meant to be. Flak is supposed to kill ESFs and ward off Libs/Galaxies. ESF are supposed to kill Libs/Galaxies.

    However, there's always a few people who can operate out of intended roles. Daltons shouldn't be able to fire upwards into air. Most people can't do this reliably, but there's the 1% who can. Stealth + tankbuster is too gimmicky. Liberators need to be far louder or have a larger auto-spot circle.
    • Up x 1
  3. axiom537

    Both the Buster and the Dalton are Anti-Vehicle Guns by not only their in game description, but also in their function. The Dalton can not 2 shot tanks.

    Awesome you had a good run in a liberator, great for you that is meaningless. I have great runs on occassion with every vehicle in this game, as I said that is meaningless. Personally, I do not have a problem taking out a Liberator. I can do it in my ESF, I can do it in my Liberator or Galaxy and I have even done it with my Valkyr. I also kill them with my MBT, my dual Walker Sundy, my skyguard, my dual burster Max and my Walker Harasser and my Lock-on AA Launcher. The weapons and vehicles are there to do the task, just because you do not have the knowledge, skill or more then likely the desire to try, doesn't mean it can't be done.
  4. ColonelChingles

    Counters are supposed to be manpower and cost efficient when you stack them up against the thing they are meant to counter. Otherwise if I had to spend the same amount of manpower and resources to counter the enemy unit, I'm not really countering it. I'm just matching it.

    For example, consider the ESF. It is completely okay for one 350 nanite single-person A2A ESF to take down a 450 nanite three-person Liberator. Why? Because the ESF is the counter to Liberators, so you don't need three ESFs to do the job.

    In the same way, the 350 nanite single-person AA Skyguard should be able to take down the bigger and more expensive Liberator. Because the Skyguard is the counter to the Liberator, so you shouldn't have to "match" the Liberator in terms of resources to destroy it.

    It makes much more sense for counters to be cost and manpower efficient over the things they are supposed to counter. In this way a smarter but smaller and less well-funded force can defeat a larger force through organized teamwork and smart tactics.

    Otherwise if we were to balance by your method of "matching", victory in battle simply comes down to whoever happens to have more people in a particular fight... not a terribly engaging way to balance a game.
    • Up x 1
  5. Anaryl



    Special pleading. Useless rebuttal.
    ----------------------------------------------------

    I've found that the Liberator is basically the bane of everything. It's too strong and it's too fast. It's an incredibly overpowered flying tank.

    For example tonight I was partnered with another Skyguard, there were a number of solo libs flying around, piloted averagely. We laid heaps of fire into them and the only time they died was when the pilot panicked and crashed, or he took fires from us two skyguards, and multiple AA rockets. On a separate occasion earlier, I was defending the fortress on Amerish supported by multiple burster MAX, the solo libs just kept on coming over the hill and laying down fire. I used the spawn teleporter to lay multiple spawns worth of AA rockets on these guys, and each time the Lib would retreat over the hill and then com back for another go after a minute or so. I would say I reequipped probably ten times, so that's about fifty rockets. That didn't kill the Liberators.

    On multiple occasions I have been dogfighting in my Mosquito and whilst i am not the best pilot, I am reasonably competent. I have on a number of occasions not only laid into Liberators with my missiles - even two direct hits with the hornets, but a full magazine for MG rounds, only for the Lib to flip up, waste me down to 10% health, and even after I turn and burn, have him chase me down and knock me out of the sky.

    The Skyguard works fine against the fighters. It's the liberators ridiculously strong armour that is the problem. It will take multiple shots from tanks, multiple upon multiple magazines of Skyguard rounds, it can simply ascend out of range of lock-on missiles and become untargetable. It's far too durable., it's far too fast, and it's far too lethal. It needs a trade off, and the obvious ones are between its ability to survive, the ridiculous amount of punishment it dishes out, and its ability to pursue any other target in any other modality.
    • Up x 1
  6. axiom537

    /Disagree

    An ESF can take out a multi-crewed Liberator, just like a Skyguard can take out a multicrewed Liberator. An ESF is a much better platform for engaging a Liberator, because it operates in the same 3 dimensions space and has greater speed, therefore it can do things that a Lightening can not do, thus it is a better counter to a liberator then a lightning, but even it is not a 1 :1 hard counter to the liberator.

    A solo ESF is not a hard counter to a multi-crewed Liberator. Can a good ESF take out a liberator? Yes, just like a solo skyguard can. But in general it takes more then one ESF to take out a liberator, or damage may need to come from other sources, just like the lightning, but in most instances a solo ESF is not a threat to a multi-crewed Liberator.

    I know I generally do not have an issue with a solo ESF, for the simple reason I run a Walker on my tail. I would regard a skyguard a greater threat.
  7. Weterman

    You're forgetting that the skyguard can destroy a lib from a long distance, and the lib can't touch the skyguard from that distance.
  8. axiom537

    Based on what hard numbers? I'm sorry but your personal experience is not an example of the liberator being OP, maybe you are just are not a good pilot. But lets compare the "the Flying MBT" to the actual MBT's.

    People complain about the Tank buster...Ok, it has a VKPU of 2.5 and Avg KPH of 6
    - The AP Main gun on a MBT as a VKPU of 5 and a Avg KPH of 20
    * so MBT's kill 2x as many vehicles and 3X's as many other targets*

    People complain about the Dalton...VKPU = 3.6 and Avg KPH = 22
    - Halberd VKPU = 2.3 and AVG KPH = 25
    - Enforcer/Saron VKPU = 2.6 and Avg KPH = 20
    ***Keep in mind we need to add Halberd and ES AV Secondaries together.

    Combined AV Secondaries on MBT Approx. VKPU = 5 and Avg KPH 45
    * MBT's AV Secondaries Kill 1.4 more VKPU and nearly twice as many Infantry*

    People compain about the Zephyr...AKPU = 8 and AKPH = 43 +60 ( duster)
    - Cannister + Kobalt ...AKPU = 8.6 and AKPH = 104
    *MBT's AI Secondaries have an AKPU +3.6 and kill over 2.5X more infantry / hour*

    *** I forgot to add in the Duster with the Zephry, when I do that the AKPU and AKPH between the Anti-infantry Liberator Weapons and the MBT's Anti-infantry weapons. they are pretty much identical....

    I'm sorry but when I look at the number of vehicle kill / Infantry Kills of other vehicles and in particular the MBT. The liberator just does not stand out as this big huge boogey man that is the bain of Planetside.

    You people need to have some perspective. In comparison to a MBT the actual kills the liberator is getting for the same Costs/man power / intended target is actually less. So why all this hatred for the Liberator, when it is quite clear the MBT is a much more powerful and much greater threat then a liberator.
    • Up x 1
  9. Dreez

    The ONLY WAY a skyguard kills a Liberator is if the Liberator is already next to dead, or it's stupid enough to
    hang around 20 seconds for the Skyguard to empty 2 magazines into it.... that is the only way.

    But in most situations, the Liberator will just turn into the Skyguard and kill it before those 20 seconds.
  10. JohnGalt36

    ... or the Skyguard is more intelligent than a brick and is fighting with two other Skyguards and/or near cover. Successfully using a Skyguard isn't lone-wolfing it, picking fights with flying death machines. It's waiting until you know you can kill whatever you're shooting at before provoking it, repelling air attacks against friendly armor, or rolling with other AA.
  11. Anaryl

    There's words fo

    This is what is known as a deflection, or as I affectionately term it, bollocks.



    Didn't you just say we aren't talking about personal experience?

    Prey tell, how many MBTs fly? None.
  12. axiom537

    ONLY WAY DREEZ kills a liberator is when it is already next to dead...

    There I fixed it for you.

    Please stop projecting your failings and lack of ability as some sort of fact.
    • Up x 1
  13. axiom537

    Those figures I listed are not my personal experience, they are reality. They are the actual kill figures of every single player in PS2, that flies a Liberator or drives a MBT and how many kills those vehicles actually make.

    I do not know how MBT's Fly. That was your expression not mine....

    Deflection would be ignoring the actual facts and using non validated personal experience and hyperbole to try and sensationalize ones view in absence of substance.
    • Up x 1
  14. Anaryl


    You're the one comparing damage stats of the Liberator to MBT weapons as if it were somehow a kind of meaningful comparison.

    So, what does the MBT have to do with the relationship between the Liberator and AA? Nothing.. Ergo you're deflecting, and resorting to insults and special pleading to cover up that you don't actually have any good arguments.

    Your "cold hard facts" are meaningless. You may as well say "The sky is blue and hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, therefore the Liberator is not unbalanced". Well the two former statements are true, but have absolutely no bearing on the latter. The same goes for your random statistics about the Lib and MBT weapons. They are only being posted to deflect from the real issue of experience with the vehicles in question.

    If you'd actually ever bothered to main a Skyguard you wouldn't say nonsensical things like "the Skyguard can kill the Liberator from any distance". No it can't. It's the exact opposite. Perhaps if you had ever played the game after opening your eyes, you would notice this.

    It's what's know as a non sequitur. Meaning 'does not follow'.

    We get it, you're a Liberator fanboy and your enjoyment and ego is more important than other people's. If you have nothing of value to add, stop talking.
  15. JohnGalt36

    I'm confused, Anaryl. Didn't you make the comparison that Libs are flying tanks? If that were true, wouldn't they have a VKPH similar to or better than a tank?
    • Up x 1
  16. Anaryl

    There's a certain irony to somebody who uses the alias John Galt being so obtuse don't you think?
  17. axiom537

    Isn't this entire argument about how the Liberator is OP, how it has no counters, how it is the bain of planetside, that no other vehicle can possibly match as it instanta gibs vehicles and infantry like no other...

    How could it be OP if we are not comparing it to something...

    You say the Liberator is OP. I would assume then that we are looking at the amount of kills that it is making, because what else could make it OP. So if the Liberator is killing X number of Vehicle and Y number of Infantry and you consider it OP, then why aren't MBT's which are a comparable ground vehicle not OP, when they are killing 2X the vehicles and 2Y Infantry...

    Your arguments are baseless...
  18. JohnGalt36

    Metaphors contain an implied comparison. You called them a flying tank, nobody else did.

    I still have yet to see any data from you to show that Liberators are OP. They kill fewer vehicles than tanks do and demand considerably more skill to use.
  19. JohnGalt36

    Tell me, Anaryl, what role do you think Liberators should be in? Are they AV, AI, AA? What should we compare them to to decide if they are OP?
  20. axiom537



    The Argument is that AA is in effectual against the Liberator. Which if this were true, then the Liberator would be killing vehicles or Infantry virtually unopposed and we would expect to see some very impressive kill statistics. So if we look at the kill statisitc for the Liberator, how do we determine whether or not those numbers are out of line with other vehicles in this game. We must look at a comparable vehicle such as the MBT which has similar costs, requires multiple players and has similar weapons that perform a similar task and compare how effective the MBT is comparison to the Liberator. Which is exactly what I did. So in relation to the MBT, nothing about the Liberator IMO is OP, seeing as it is no better, but actually slightly less effective at killing vehicles and about the same for Infantry.

    I am a Planetside Fanboy...I play ever aspect of this game. I Fly, I drive and I run and gun...nice deflection...