[Suggestion] Simple ideas to fix Air gameplay

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by MadmanMSU, Apr 24, 2020.

  1. MadmanMSU

    I don't think the majority of people are happy with air. If the gameplay is working as intended, then so be it, but a post confirming that would be nice.

    On the flip side, I think there are a couple very simple ways to fix the air gameplay.

    Increase ESF minimum flight speed and take away hover mode for ESF's. Their domain is the air, it seems silly to me that an ESF can hover in the air and shotgun infantry. I'm not saying they wouldn't be able to do strafing runs, but they certainly shouldn't be better than Libs/Valks at killing infantry.

    Libs should only be able to fire the main gun when level. That's how it was in Planetside 1, not sure why they changed it for Planetside 2. Being able to flip over in the air and Dalton an ESF out of the sky is ridiculous. Libs should have air cover if they want to bomb uncontested.

    Given these changes, it might also make sense to make ground-to-air lock-ons less effective against ESF's and more effective against Valks.
    • Up x 2
  2. optimus

    I think air is in an ok spot atm, I feel ESF's are meant to emulate attack helicopters more than jet fighters. That being said I would love for them to introduce a new NS fighter jet or empire specific one. Make it faster and more agile than the ESF's with extremely limited VTOL preventing it from hover spamming ground targets. It could be the new king of air combat, given tools to specifically kill other air units better than the esf and lib but with almost no (or extremely limited) air to ground utility. Getting harrassed by ESF's or libs? pull one of these things and clear them out. It would be fast enough that ground to air lock and air to air lock on missiles wouldn't be a threat but also it would have a difficult time doing anything to ground besides strafe it. Its weapons need to be geared for killing ESF's and Libs and other jets.
    • Up x 1
  3. Scrundle

    I suggest you stop comparing this game to Planetside 1 or else you're going to wind up depressed.
    • Up x 5
  4. ChUnKiFieR

    Whether your happy about it or not is irrelevant. They are what they are. I hate them also but if I wanted to fly I had to learn to do it their way like any other video game. I use a joystick to fly a lib with the bomber airframe. (easiest airframe to to use with a joystick.) I can fly a reaver hardly at all. Valks are ok. That's the best I can do so that's all the war gets. You don't have to do everything in the game. There will always be people who can do more or less than you in life. Get used to it. Get over it!:D
  5. McToast

    ESFs are a VTOL/helicopter hybrid. Making them jets flying around at 500 kph doesn't really work because of the rather short render distance. You have to hover around to be able to spot things. If you could only do strafing runs they'd have to make rockets/noseguns oneshot/twoshot infantry and do a hell of a lot more damage to vehicles.
    And the reason why ESFs seem to dominate in A2G duty is that libs are completly neutered in their AI capacity. They are about 95% AV/AA today. When was the last time you saw a lib murdering infantry? I haven't been killed by a lib while playing infantry a single time in the past four weeks. A handful deaths to ESF AI noseguns, that's it.

    Equip FS and Composite Armor.
    It's a good thing this game doesn't have a hardcounter RPS-balance. It would make the gunplay boring and reduce everything to strategy. ESFs already are a counter to libs - if the playerskill is on even ground.

    I think lock-ons are in a decent spot right now. They are an easy-to-use and cheap deterrent. They chase aircrafts away and get you the occasional vehicle kill. They could maybe use some change in regards to directive kills.
    If it was for me, they could get rid of lock-ons completly though. They are a crutch, nothing more, nothing less.
  6. Endlave

    Wanna fix air? Make AA be more than a "deterrence" otherwise it will never be fun nor effective. No one wants to sit around watching the skies all day to get some "condolence exp".

    It's ridiculous that the only way to counter air is to pull air, yet air has the most ridiculous learning curve of anything this game has. This basically means air plays a different game from the rest. While everyone plays planetside, Air plays whatever it is they want to play. Never really understood the idea behind that.

    And don't even get me started on Bastions...
    • Up x 1
  7. McToast

    So if air is (naturally) difficult to get into and you make it possible for one or two guys to easily hardcounter it from the ground... why pull air at all? What's its use then?
    • Up x 1
  8. Endlave

    Same use as now, only that they would finally have to have ground support in order to farm mindlessly. There is no time to look at the skies when there are enemies on the ground.
    • Up x 1
  9. Glenndal

    If someone is farming your team in an esf, they are probably quite good at flying.

    My experience learning to fly is that ground deterrance is VERY effective. Farming planetmans from the air in an esf is actually extremely difficult. I cannot kill infantry, even a little. I can kill vehicles if they don't know how to aim and are isolated, but otherwise I DO need ground support. I can provide additional damage from odd angles to vehicles that are hiding from other ground targets. I can ambush an unmanned sunderer and do some damage to it before I need to bug out, reload, and circle in for another attack. By that point they've probably repaired it and manned the guns or have a heavy/max sitting there

    The thing that makes it doubly hard is enemy air. If I'm looking down to shoot a ground target, I'm a sitting duck for an enemy fighter or lib to zoom in and blast me. Even if I get clipped with an AA launcher or flak turret, I need to pull out quick, or I might get killed in half a clip by the next fighter that shows up. And if a skyguard/burster max gets the drop on me and I don't have cover I'm probably dead. More than one is probably a no-fly zone.

    The anti-infantry nose-gun does exist. If I ran it I could maybe kill infantry. I would also die even more than I already do. Its utter garbage at doing anything else. You are majorly disadvantaged against everything other than infantry using it, and you're still just as squishy to everything.

    I fully agree that fighting ground-to-air feels kind of bad because if you succeed in pushing off an aircraft, you got maybe some exp if you hit it, and none if they bailed while you were still playing lock-on-tag with it. Comparatively, if you kill an enemy soldier, you get like 100xp or something, progress towards your weapon and maybe other stuff. For deterring aircraft, you get a small chunk of xp and get to feel good for defending your team. Libs probably have slightly too many hp right now, but I don't usually fly them so I don't know the nuances of their pains.

    I highly encourage everyone to learn to fly esfs. Its fun and complex, and very different from infantry combat. It doesn't take as many certs as you might think to get started. I recommend this guide.

    Covers most of what you need to know, but definitely check out other guides as well.
    • Up x 1
  10. TheEmancipator

    I would just like to see the walker be more effective against air. Nothing sucks more than my gunner railing an ESF to 10% health and having to reload while it escapes behind a hill. Oh and ESF's AV and AA weapons ineffective against infantry just like they did to tanks
  11. Werkitten

    In my opinion, the excessive complexity of mastering aerial combat is what scares the novice away in the first place. And all this complexity grows from one point - it is low weapon damage and a lot of health in the ESF.
    A novice can often catch a veteran on a mistake and open fire first, making several hits, this is not very difficult, since no one can see in all directions at once. However, this is not enough, in order to shoot down the ESF, you need not just hit it several times from the bow gun, but for a long time to shoot without missing, and one full magazine of the gun is likely to be insufficient.
    In a long shootout, a novice has almost no chance, even if he initially started from a better position.
    For the same reason, this game does not work the classic tactics of air combat from flight simulators, interferes it is not the ability of the ESF to fly like a helicopter, namely, that you need to hold the weapon on the target for a long time, which is impossible for other options.
    In fact, fighting on the ESF is the maximum expression of the same problem that has already been raised in the discussion about infantry fighting and shooting in the head, the mechanical skill here is much more important than the starting position of the battle.

    I think the air should have a very powerful weapon, but not have a large supply of health and armor, then both air battles and air battles against ground forces will change radically and for the better.
    I don't see any good reason why planes often have more health than ground vehicles, especially the Liberator and galaxy.
    • Up x 1
  12. MonnyMoony

    LOL - oh ok. It's so difficult that every other Mossie or Reaver seems to be packing Banshee or Mustang AH and LOLpod combo - relentlessly farming ground targets.
    • Up x 1
  13. MonnyMoony

    They should give Maxes a more skill based (and more deadly - especially at close range) AA option.

    Something similar to dual walkers would probably work.
  14. Blam320

    My problems with the air game: controls are unintuitive, learning to dogfight is entirely reliant on learning exploits, and trying to A2G is either one of two things: you're unstoppable and nobody does anything to counter you, or you're completely shut out of the hex.

    IMO Air definitely needs a balancing pass to make the air game more accessible, while still rewarding skilled skyknights. Namely, improve the control scheme and make ESFs function like actual planes, not hybrid helicopters. Valkyries are the game's helicopter. I'd also take a look at A2G, so that it's not a huge stomp one way or the other. For instance, bring back the PS1 skyguard and remove the ability for Lightnings to equip a dedicated A2A cannon. In return they can get a coaxial machine gun akin to their PS1 counterpart.
    • Up x 3
  15. Feyyore

    A dedicated A2A fighter unit would be handy to have. As mentioned in one of th comments. With no A2G weapons and no vtol abilities (other than landing at the rearming points in the warpgate) Would be a nice addition if they want to keep ESF's as apache helicopters of Auraxis... Also being back the old school PS1 Skyguard would be amazing to have. (Specially if it means bringing back the dual vulcan armed lightning)
  16. iStalk

    Wait are you suggesting to remove hover? The hell? Lol.
  17. TheEmancipator

    how about not making ESFs faster than a turboing racer chasis harrasser as well. we hunt ESFs on the ice fields of Esamir and when we do get pilots to play, they typically figure out that they bit off more than they can chew and run. But even on that flat ground, they outrun my fully certed racer chasis harrasser as I turbo after them. We have been forced to hunt libs which cant just turbo away when in trouble
  18. Eaglebird

    I can tell who flies and who doesn't.
  19. LordKrelas

    So.. the Counter to A2G, is A2A. So the Counter, if harassed by Air, is to be air, in another form of One-sided Affair.
    Can Pilots then suffer the Glory of this logic, by a G2A that requires G2G to kill? As that would be the same level of Bull.
    Or is the ESF going to be toned back, rather than 2 A2G Spammers, and An A2G Ace, being the circle-of-air-gods.

    As the Skyknights will enjoy it - But It doesn't help the Situation, past Here is another Hard-counter if you're a Pilot.
    IE having a Better A2A doesn't solve Liberators or ESFs being incredibly effective compared to G2A sources.
    Air already was the Counter to Air; Making an Air-Unit dedicated to this notion, doesn't fix ****.
    • Up x 2
  20. TRspy007

    That's why they added the radar as default, and use stealth to counteract it. So noobs can't see veterans, but veterans can see the noobs 500m away.

    And then we have the fact AA is useless against good pilots. It doesn't even do it's job as a "deterrent" properly. While skill for pilots is greatly rewarded, even if I land my dumbfire rocket on a fast moving esf, it's not a 1hk. It's a pretty bias situation.

    Really not fun to fight against.
    • Up x 1