Sick of Snipers (Suggestion)

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Silkensmooth, Dec 29, 2017.

  1. LordKrelas

    Any sniper would basically never get a second shot, and be the easiest thing to kill given the lack of ability to escape once noticed.

    Everyone has a regenerative shield.
    As well, everyone bright moves making the head-shot which gets more difficult the further the distance from the shooter to target..
    Add in that once engaged, that infil with the bolt is pretty screwed if the enemy is able to hit them reliably: Distance becomes critical.

    At 10 meters, the reduced shield, means health damage is dealt faster.
    A Medic can regenerate as well, making them very different if engaged than engineers or Light Assaults.
    Not to mention, at closer-ranges that bolt better score a head-shot or it's a switch to a sidearm.

    So the Bolt-Action, means they can't fire a second-shot or survive detection or they have no ability to withstand any stray bullets.
    While every other class can regenerate shields, use High-ROF weapons, cover, and if the Sniper isn't well past their max range, simply kill them with stray bullets.

    Magic of Cover, and that the sniper is at that range, so they don't get mulched..
    If they were closer, or easily hit, they positioned themselves in a near suicidal position.
    After all, unless every shot is perfect, and every target can't use cover or move, that Bolt is very useless against any weapon in range of the infil.

    Practical counters to Snipers: Cover, Suppression fire (let alone if too close), Rocket-Launcher, Vehicles, non-standard movement, Snipers, Allies.

    Not everything is going to put itself in your firing range & control zone, rather than be outside of it, in their own.
    As some people are bright.
  2. Sirygba

    It's not a question of lack of countermeasures, but detection. You can't react to something you don't see, but infiltrators can target your head without any problem while being invisible. Combine that with clientside hit detection and lag, and you only see/hear them uncloack the moment their bullet hits your head.
    • Up x 3
  3. DCTH

    Propably a non-serious thread but anyway ... Snipers are in the game because "snipers". They add very few towards a base-capture or defend themselves and the game wouldn't change much if there weren't any snipers (long-range guns).
    Except it would ... key-factor are the other abilities of the Infiltrator, namely spotting and sensor-darts and in teamplay/squad-play with voice "live"-commentary on where enemies are.
  4. Eternaloptimist

    Not really needed if you run Blackhand in addition to your carbine or shotgun as an LA :).
  5. adamts01

    Latency is actually the strongest argument against a fast ttk.

    Snipers are annoying, just because they'll spam bullets until one happens to hit, but normally you get ressed or can just re-spawn, unlike a random Dalton pegging your ESF. But I honestly think LAs throw a bigger wrench in balance than anything else. Take C4 for example. Its counter is that it's deployed by a slow infantry player. C4 fairies are bad, but Ambusher jets make the situation just unbearable for tanks. Same problem with shotguns, getting within range is no longer an issue. Room full of dudes? Suicide C4 ambusher attack clears out nearly everyone, and thanks to latency you're dead before he clears the door. Those jets are fun and all, but I think they were a bad move.
    • Up x 1
  6. Demigan

    LA's wouldn't be the most proficient class.
    When using shotguns, LA's best place to be is a towerstomp. They pop up close to their enemies and overcome the biggest limitation of a shotgun: Range. Ofcourse when doing that they do have a giant COF from their jumpjet phase. Infiltrators can pop up anywhere and don't have to deal with that jumping COF.
    We can also ask ourselves with class is better with a CQC SMG. The LA or the Infiltrator? Infiltrators are notorious for their use with SMG's, while an LA is only hurting himself when he uses an SMG over a Carbine. Again showing the CQC superiority of the Infiltrator.

    Or you snipe him with an Infiltrator, or you let him sit there same as you do with current Infiltrators on a techplant leg, or you return fire (which on infiltrators on a techplantleg works fine), or you get any class and climb the techplant to get a shot at them. There would be a few select places where it would be nigh impossible for other classes to go, but we've already seen dedicated infiltrators take such positions and it's not that big of a problem.
    And there's the question: Why shouldn't you have more reasons to pull LA's and Infiltrators? If the LA and Infiltrator become eachothers best counter in the case of a sniping LA, then there's less reasons to pull a HA who currently dominates the scene of infantryplay.
    • Up x 2
  7. JobiWan

    Yeah take away the sniper's cloak. Along with the Medic's revive gun, the Engineer's repair tool and turrets, the HA's shields and rocket launchers and the LA's jetpack.

    Screw it, let's just have one class and be done with it. Or you could, ya know, not get sniped so easily. It's not rocket science, just don't stand still or run in straight lines
    • Up x 2
  8. The Shady Engineer

    LA vs infiltrator when it talking about shotgun proficiency comes down to stealth vs momentum/violence of action. I would argue that LA will always be the king of breaching with shotguns. Infiltrators would be the most annoying shotgun user but not the most effective when it comes to objective play.

    Infiltrators use sub guns because they're their only cqc automatic option. SMGs are intentionally understatted compared to other primaries in all areas except hipfire, which cqc carbines can do extremely well with a laser equipped while maintaining better accuracy, velocity and damage drop off. So why would a light assault ever use an SMG other than directive hunting?

    Infiltrators on the other hand have to use an SMG if they want to do cqc work. They aren't more proficient with the weapon, they just use it more because it's their only option.

    The difference is if an infiltrator wants to get into one of those sniping places, they have to burn an ESF or get lucky with a drop pod. Light assaults just have to press spacebar. Once an infiltrator has been spotted on a tech plant leg, he's as good as dead because he doesn't have room to maneuver. Light assaults can just nope outta there.
  9. That_One_Kane_Guy

    I would argue that the the scout rifles are better for the infil than the SMGs are. You can kill at distance whole still being effective up close if necessary. This may be my bias because I do not have the greatest twitch reflexes but I believe keeping distance as an infil is better than trying to kill a group at point blank before getting gunned down. The distance makes it easier for you to disengage if it becomes unfavorable as your cloak is almost perfect at >40-50m. Personally I think that clever repositioning and the ability to clear a spot at will makes it just as easy for an infil to escape as a light assault.
  10. Demigan

    You are acting as if breaching is almost the sole purpose of shotguns. But there's tons of area's and scenario's where shotguns are useful outside of breaching. For your standard "murder the stream of enemies from the spawn moving to the objective", the shotgun infil is far superior to the LA. For the scenario of "take territory in between buildings", the shotgun infiltrator is again far superior. Only for a full-scale chokepoint would the LA have a superior chance of breaching, and only because the LA got the Ambusher jets.

    And despite that, infiltrators are far superior using SMG's than LA's. And yes LA's also have Carbines which are overall superior to SMG's, but when the LA has an SMG equipped he'll have more trouble using it (and I should know, I tried and auraxed almost all SMG's and Carbines you can buy with certs). But imagine the extreme OPness of infiltrators with Carbines... The simple truth is that even with the 100 health less, the infiltrator is superior no matter which weapon you give him. So giving him a sniper was the best idea they had. It limits their potential compared to wielding other weapons.

    They are superior with the weapon. Why wouldn't they? Why would the LA be superior with the weapon? To get the drop on someone the LA has to either pop a corner or jump off a roof. Popping a corner can be done by all classes, dropping off a roof gives you a massive starting COF. The Infiltrator can stealth and avoid most attention and then be sticking that SMG in someone's mouth and have a huge advantage most of the time.

    And if they noped out of there the threats gone. But imagine a place unlike a techplant leg, such as any other high sniper-spot. The LA would have the same limited movement as the Infiltrator on the techplant leg. Sure he can move to another location, but whenever he pops up to shoot he's vulnerable. The Infiltrator pops up stealth, can acquire a target, decloak&fire and then be back behind the ridge before anyone has a good chance to retaliate. The LA would pop up, have to look for a target while any countersniper worth his salt only has to scan a limited ridgeline, aim, fire and hope he hasn't taken a bullet to the head while doing that.

    All in all, the infiltrator is a superior class no matter what you give him. The stealth and surprise attacks he can do with it are massive advantages. LMG's, AR's, Carbines, SMG's, Shotguns... I can't think of a single weapon the Infiltrator wouldn't be better than the other classes. Only for a direct assault on a chokepoint would the Infiltrator be inferior.
    • Up x 2
  11. Halkesh

    Sniper are extremely annoying to face (instant kill on a game with low TTK), but they're somewhat balanced. I've only 4 problem with snipers :
    • They make every long range fight turn into sniperwar
    • They make engineer turret even more useless as they are
    • While oneheadshot-kill are OK, I think the 2bodyshot-kill should be nerfed to 3bodyshot-kill
    • Daimyo is still OP as hell
  12. Zagareth

    While your suggestion is very short and not well-founded at all, I'd like to add another suggestion.
    Im a pure sniper and almost everyone here knows it... and Im always with you when it comes to the argument that a cloak for a sniper is not needed at all. (sound is more treacherous than cloak is helpful at all)
    But what I would like to see is, that Snipers get a kind of Chameleon armor. An armor that takes the current texture from the ground the Sniper stand on or moves over and adapts it to his camouflage within a very short time (starting at 1 sec, reduced by 0,2 sec per lvl of armor).
    Snipers are not invisible at range (no cloak), but they get same colors as the environment - which makes it really hard to spot them with player eyes (especially when they dont move) and reduces the chance of getting "spotted" by 80% by any spotting mechanics (Q or Implants or whatever)
    • Up x 1
  13. pnkdth

    It is true infiltrator can make excellent use of the SMG because of the cloak but it also puts the class up against players with more health and better weapons. The cloak is also very much visible when in full sprint as well. It is still an advantage though, for sure, but that's where the -100 effective health enters the picture. Once you pop it is very easy to get stomped.

    So your last statement is a rather steep exaggeration. Surprise is only a massive advantage where there is an element of surprise to be had. Most battles people are ready for you, there are a limited amount of ways to go, and you're better off with a HA, medic or LA because of being able to attack from unexpected angles.

    The saying, "Planetmans cannot look up", even holds true to veterans because it is very hard to expect something from where you do not expect it. That kind of surprise is more powerful and persistent than any cloak because repositioning with a LA is a cake walk.

    So depending in which scenario you find yourself in and what class you enjoy, pick your trapdoor spider of choice and have fun.

    edit: and to make it clear. Shotguns on infils are a baaaaad idea.
  14. Prudentia

    there actually isn't a single weapon in the game that has a shorter TTK on an infil within it's max damage range. because the lowest max damage an infantry gun has is 125 it takes 8 shots to get 900 damage the same way as it does for 1000. only difference is with lasher splash damage (1 splash less) and that all guns effectively have greatly improved softpoint ammo as you keep the same TTK as with a higher damage tier for longer.
    • Up x 2
  15. BadCoding

    In PS2 snipers have stealth, in real life they'd use the long distance, camouflage and lie down to achieve the same.

    Lie down doesn't exist in PS2 so if anything the low time required to acquire a target should be made an issue. If snipers wouldn't be capable of moving in, aquiring the target, moving out but would actually need to stand still for some time that'd be some kind of fix to them but other issues would arise, like tanks being capable of pixel accurate aiming, much like many weapons with single shots that aren't even sniper rifles.

    In case snipers ever get a lie down mechanic and have to invest some time to aquire a target I'd grant them the ability to increase the spawn time of infantry killed by them depending on the weapon class used and whether the kill was a bodyshot (lesser increase) or headshot (major increase) to make up for their lack of other forms of team support and what they're useful against. But I doubt that'll ever happen.

    Snipers are an issue because it's not inner city combat but out in the landscape. If you had some buildings and streets where the fights would take part then line of sight would be far more of an issue than with open landscape.

    We learn from this that.. *sniped*
  16. Moz

    Sick of Snipers (Suggestion).

    Stop standing still.

    That is all.
    • Up x 3
  17. Campagne

    • Up x 2
  18. TR5L4Y3R

    i know it isn´t a popular idea but i would still love to have default googles for all classes that allows to see cloaked units, but you can´t Qspot and while you use the googles can´t do any other action and get a movementpenalty (at worst be stationary) ..
  19. LordKrelas

    Likely because if the googles see at the range of snipers, any infil trying to use an SMG, or move at all will be shot while unable to return fire, since Q-spots aren't exactly much of a sacrifice when you can see every fragile infil perfectly.
    Not to mention, the "see the everything" & then fire doesn't take long, let alone when aiming at the more fragile opponent.

    Not to mention the word "Default" which seems to imply all classes start with the ability to click a button & see all infiltrators, ensuring Max units to Heavy assaults when holding a position invalidate any attempt to get close with a cloak & not due to practice seeing infils but through goggles.
    Of which unlike the darklight, the infil has no indicator of their class ability being useless & making them unable to fire pointlessly in-front or in sight of the goggle user -- nor the range of "and you're ******"

    Even without the ability to fire themselves: That goggle user isn't mute.
    And has the ability to flick it off at will, invaliding a class ability without any true downside or indicator.
    Imagine if a Heavy Shield was ignored by turning on something that was invisible to any but the user?
    Either every Heavy at that point has to consider the shield useless, or gamble -- but at least they can fire.
  20. TR5L4Y3R

    obviously maxunits should not get it
    but regarding your points
    the BASR with the exception of HA with active shield can down any infantry in one hit basicaly making them as fragile, yes it requires aim
    it requires no skill to activate a cloak however and until someone cloaks or decloaks unless he´s infront of your face you don´t have any indicator of a infil being nearby and the only infantry that has recon devices are again infils, unless you have any vehicle with scoutradar (which i am not even sure if it detects cloaked infils, and i still have to wonder how many even use it)
    even if you located a sniper infils location as infantry it doesn´t give you any initiative advantage

    the darklight is just plain crap .. it clearly shows that you are looking for a stealthed unit and just as bad as bad as a heavie´s shield makes you a glowing christmastree at night offering a present to the sniper .. its range is .. .. WHAT RANGE?
    not to mention equiping it means you have to sacrifice accuracy or your own ability to get close to the opponent ...
    meaning darklights are ONLY useful for finding actual infiltrators, not cloaksnipers ..