Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by jaktrobot, Feb 9, 2014.
Wait, I thought we were ******** about the VS overpop. What's this about NC?
So a 143/750 kills faster with bodyshots, whereas a 167/600 kills faster with headshots.
And that is unbalanced....how? All I see is just pros and cons.
Did you just assert that the Gauss SAW is better than the Orion and Carv because it has more total kills, despite the fact that your data sheet shows it also has the lowest KPU and the lowest average BR user (i.e. more experienced players have given up on it)
Thanks for posting stats that don't support your point at all.
The only thing you forgot to mention is the new "leg" hitbox that has a 0.9 damage multiplier. If one of your shots hits the leg, even at 1m, you still need an extra bullet to kill because of this. Guess which weapon will put that extra bullet out faster? The 500RPM weapon or the 650 RPM weapon?
As an aside, this phenomenon has been present whenever fights happened at anything except point blank range, because at 11m the damage dropoff begins and you'll need an extra bullet to kill even if all your shots hit the head or body.
Not true at all. I've been following the population figures on Woodman since PU2 and VS numbers increase during Alters and drop down after. NC and TR stay approximately the same. So its not 4th factioners, its Alert Outfits.
How is the Gauss saw OP still?
Most legit posters say the EM6 is far superior, it seems you want to kick an already dead horse some more.
And nerfing Scatmax CQC damage? Oh boy it seems someone does not understand the term balance very well. If a shotgun is bad at CQC and bad at range, then what good is it at all?
I agree though, I can live with a minor nerf to the Shield if the Swagburner got one too! As its now the "I run Button"
As for the jackhammer. its Marmite you either love it or hate it.
Nice one HadesR Now maybe the idiots over at TR and VS dream land can stop calling it the God Saw, and find out the facts before sprouting nonesence.
Not sure if trolling but. I would call 40% world population on a Sunday (9th Feb) main prime time (7:20 PM UTC+1) overpopulation. I'm already lenient, not counting anything but prime time. I have the evidence to support this (below), and also to prove your statement wrong that we generally have overpopulation during alerts (here: prime time only), I'll also link to a site showing alert times which you can compare to the population chart.
Population chart: http://borderlinetactical.net/rsnc/world-population/?world_id=9&zoom=2 (it's set to past 3 days but feel free to zoom out)
Alert times: http://ps2alerts.com/
Whilst I appreciate the math, the conclusion is largely irrelevant. The balance before the patch was NOT good, as the statistics confirmed. Hence the post-patch values are far more interesting. So bodyshots from an MSW-R post-patch take 62 less milliseconds to kill than from an Anchor... And headshots from an Anchor take 38 milliseconds less time to kill than a MSW-R... That sounds pretty good, balance-wise... Definitely something that the statistics will have to confirm. Either way, a pretty massive step up from MSW-R being better with headshots AND bodyshots, eh?
And all of that, once again, is based upon factoring in alpha strike damage, which inherently assumes guaranteed first shot hits (i.e. no leading onto target) and in those calculations 100% accuracy. Calculate those TTKs with the first shot missed and (I could be wrong, but I'd be very surprised...) and I imagine the MSW-R will win both with bodyshots and headshots. Certainly a broader comparison (MSW-R vs SAW) would see that occur. This is important to remind oneself when theory-crafting vs considering actual usage. Hence, we're still waiting on good stats. The prelim stats we've seen back in December showed the Anchor increase in performance slightly compared to the MSW-R (though it's still our highest 'level' usage LMG, so a more fair comparison is probably the Bull, which saw the same performance increase), but not anything that would even compare to the larger imbalances we saw pre-patch.
As a TR I've been playing a little less because all out the ES weapons that were boring copies of something already in the game are now worse than the NS variant. When the striker was OP, it was boring, now it's boring and useless, when the marauder was op it was fun lol, now it's under performing so we´re back to fury, which is the same thing just lower mag, we all KNOW the Vulcan nerf was unnecessary after the harrasser nerf.
And I'm also disheartned by the new infiltrator update where the TR ES rifle is just an scout rifle that might be OP for a while then nerfed to the ground, as everything else. -sigh-, yes this is an opinion. But an opinion is the difference between loggin in or not.
i love these,
gauss saw OP? just stop with the grass is greener, its a good weapon, difficult to master but rewarding. shall we take a look at the orion? after about 200 hours on an nc character just picking up any of the stock vs weapons seems simple and well, easy
(disclaimer, this is purely anecdotal and provided to create a sense of contrast)
and that leads into most of the posts here, wishing they had a gauss saw... theres a way to do that its called play nc, just like people moaning about the jaguar , or the VS weapons, all the stats posted in this thread show the weapons being the most balanced they've ever been.
the topic of the vanguard "iwin shield" - the nc has been clearly branded as the hard hitting cqc faction much to the dismay of people who love the NC railgun trait like myself, to that end we have shotguns, shotguns everywhere, so much so that our MBT acts like a shotgun, a competent 2/2 crew will win in any tank provided they use its strengths, magriders beat prowlers on rough terrain due to that stable strafing platform, and they can beat vanguards at range because of agility, a prowler will beat a vanguard at max range due to huge gross dps, that the vanguard cannot dodge, and the shield decreases in effectiveness at those ranges because ranged fights are in open fields , where 5-8 seconds of safety mean nothing, conversely a vanguard that comes around a corner 5m away from any other tank will role face, just like the NC max will destroy other maxs at butt slapping range, yes it can snipe with that AP cannon, but not as well as the prowler, and the acceleration is on the level of continental drift. maybe the top ranks need a look at but most the time you have to ask was that imbalance or did i engage like an idiot , was i outplayed was my situational awareness lacking?
most of the pop imbalance now is all the 4th factioners who only played the vs and tr because at the time they were statistically stronger as said by devs, that when those factions were brought down to the NC level the overpop swarmed out like a wave, give it time the waters will settle, its like a dam bursting
Wrong stats to look at. Thats total kills which just means more people are using it nothing else. Oddly the BR avg is higher for it but still the average stats are lower suggesting even seasoned players have trouble with it.
Weapon ID Total kills: Average uniques: Average kpu: Average avgbr: Average q1kpu: Average q2kpu: Average q3kpu: Average q4kpu: Headshots %:
Orion 80 651227 7,716 9.38 29.90 7.94 10.97 13.07 21.59 21%
T9 CARV 79 641141 7,604 9.35 27.60 8.18 10.44 14.25 21.63 21%
NC6 Gauss SAW 78 705634 8,857 8.83 27.32 7.71 10.86 11.08 16.82 22%
If you look at the averages you will see they are fairly close, with the nc6 being in last still. Headshots is 1% higher but then it has always had a low ttk so smart users aimed so recoil took you to the headshot. So if you want to use those stats, Gauss Saw is still the worst and guess which one is the best.
NOW: if you compare pre-2 and post-2 stats you will see that T9 and Orion took much bigger jumps on average than the Gauss Saw, showing the headshot changed favored them more! (deltas)
Weapons that kill the fastest still kill the fastest with headshots. TTK ranking among weapons most likely changed very little with headshot change. (inaccurate weapons with high damage, perhaps are now worse to use.)
The math is appreciated but since most TR weapons have a high and random horizontal recoil, aka cannot be compensated for, all of this math means nothing. If you leave out such important variables as random left and right recoil, your simply wasting your time doing calculations.
yes I realize NC has a bit more population, I never notice it. Last I remember is vanu having 40%+ on Woodman and KoTV with their ZOE max spam.
However, i hardly think overpopulation on woodman is a problem, NC still doesn't dominate alerts. Atleast not the ones I play in.
Sorry, had to...
I would really like to see the calculations or a link to where you copied it from because I don't know how
ttk for MSW-R can be the same for headshots post/pre-patch.
I might be completely wrong but weren't the number of bullets prepatch: 1250 / (143 * 2) = 4.37, so 5 headshots and
now they are 1000 / (143 * 2) = 3.49, so 4 bullets to kill with headshots. So if you need a different amount of bullets and
the RPM wasn't changed, how can the time to kill be the same?
I understand where you're coming from, but if you aren't looking closely and can't back up your claims then please hold back on stating things such as vs is overpopped and zergs every alert. This helps no one.
Also, yeah, I personally don't mind the overpopulation of you guys. Enjoying the 50% continental boost every time I play
However, if nc don't dominate alerts and vs are more organized, you might see where I'm coming from when I say population is the deciding factor for winning WDS.
Again, not complaining. tr used to be the popular faction and they dominated the last WDS, this time it's the same with nc. The blue-gold population will go down again in a few months, I'm not too worried.
I've intentionally left accuracy out of the equation (except the point about first shot misses) since it gets into WAY too much theorycrafting when the point makes itself without it. You'll note (I think I even put them in bold?) in my first post I stated that the only important factors were damage per second and accuracy.
Also to point out, his calculations were reliant upon 100% accuracy, point blank shooting scenarios (10m range would have reversed the numbers, if I recall correctly). I'm not intentionally ignoring the difference in handling, but I do not have any data with which to make a meaningful analysis of this. Contrary to popular belief 'BECAUSE HORIZONTAL->NOT COMPENSATABLE' is not data, it's a hypothesis. There's just as much likelihood that it's easier to compensate for for newer players since it is less pronounced on average than vertical recoil is, until we have evidence showing TR with a much lower % accuracy etc (which still wouldn't eliminate range variables etc).
On that last note, we actually don't have those numbers. The numbers we do have show TR achieving a more or less identical headshot rate as NC and VS do (VS coming out on top because zero recoil and no bullet drop 'aren't helpful', eh barnies? )... Just food for thought; like I said, nowhere near enough data to talk in a meaningful manner about this. It is actually a psychological experiment I'd love to run though... Maybe I should get around to coding it one of these days...
Accuracy stats are recorded.
Yea very good point. Because I didn't notice the pop increase in my gameplay I never thought that it might have changed, completely my bad.
It always fluctuates, TR has had a big overpop, VS has had it. Now NC has it again, it will change in time.
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