Should the ESF Reverse Maneuver be removed?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by daniel696, Nov 21, 2013.

  1. daniel696

    Adding a new air vehicle has nothing to do adding a new infantry class, you can still one rocket down a helicopter, poor guys, flying low for easy death lol.
  2. Flapatax

    I would like to point out that this thread, which is asking for changes to the last reasonably difficult thing in the game to be nerfed because of a spectacular combination of "BUT IN REAL LIFE" and "IT'S SO HARD", is now 7 pages long.

    That's all.
    • Up x 4
  3. Rothnang

    The reverse maneuver doesn't need to be removed, if anything it should be made easier to do. The issue with ESFs is the controls and lack of appropriate tools to keep your bearings in a three dimensional battlefield, not the way they move.
  4. WyrdHarper

    Right. But your whole argument has been based on "but in real life..."
    • Up x 2
  5. Phazaar

    :S You understand analogies?

    We'll try again.

    Let's suppose that the Magrider's still as OP as it was at launch. The decided nerf is to turn it into a normal tank since its obvious the movement mechanics are what makes it OP. If you wanted to remove the (super OP ;) ) Magrider's ability to strafe, and turned it into a 'turn left and right' type tank with a turret, it'd be stupid as hell to then put in a new vehicle that hovers, can strafe, and has a fixed main cannon and secondary gunner... Instead, the smart thing to do would be to release a new vehicle that is the 'turn left and right' type tank with turret that was desired, and leave the Magrider as is (or put it on ice whilst working out what to do with it).
  6. McToast

    This is the single most fun thing in the game.

    the Toast
    • Up x 1
  7. Phazaar

    I love the level of arrogance necessary to put out tripe like this. You're coming in here proposing a change, and saying those that don't like the change weren't suited to the game in the first place?

    You're aware that that sits somewhere between irony and ridiculousness on the 'WTF' scale?

    Would you like to go and tell Poker players to only play with 5 cards because it's really hard working out all those odds with 52? The game wasn't really meant for those that don't like it...

    Maybe you could explain to Chess players that you're removing all the pieces except the King, Queen, and Pawns, so as to bring things down to a level that all the Draughts players out there can compete on. The game wasn't really meant for those that don't like it...

    Hey, a ******** more people could compete in Formula 1 racing if you let people race in any kind of car, and implemented a speed limit of 60mph. That'd make it just like regular road driving, and look how many people enjoy that!! Those that don't like it... Well, it was never really meant for them, eh?

    -_- Seriously.
    • Up x 1
  8. daniel696

    Read all my posts in this thread, I have just said that removing this "fight without gravity" from the ESF could make it better, and the people have associated it with "jets of real life".
    Ahh now I got it, this also could work and would make the air gameplay better and more rich, I don't know, there's a lot of possibilities that can be done, but one thing in my opnion is right, something must be done with the air gameplay to make it less hardcore, more friendly and more rich. Your suggestion was a good ideia, the problem is the people that prefer to troll, insult and flame instead of having good arguments and a good discussion, I already have reported at least 5 posts in this thread.
    • Up x 1
  9. HannibalBarca

    Sorry I got all necro and replied to posts from beginning of the thread. Have deleted.
  10. LazzzeKongo

    Those videos just shows the beauty of the flight mechanics in action.

    To me this seems like the natural way 1vs1 to dogfight in a VTOL aircraft. The only thing that is a little unique in Planetside 2 is the additional reverse thrust you get from being able to use the afterburner while hovering.
    1vs1 would still mostly be hover fighting even without this ability. If you want an example look at a game like BF2141:

    I just can not see how nerfing vertical thrusters would make this easier for someone just getting into flying. The only thing it would do is cause inexperienced pilots to ram into each other more often.
    • Up x 2
  11. Liquid23

    no you have been associating it with "real life" right from the OP where you state the reverse maneuver is something only helicopters could do and that our Jets don't behave like Jets (both of which is wrong by the way)
    • Up x 2
  12. Phazaar


    • Up x 1
  13. Phazaar


    Entirely dependent upon your thrust vector, roll and current velocity.

    You'll note that if you do that (nose down + vertical thrust) you do indeed go up and forward. The reversing element either comes from nosing up and vertical thrust (which obviously should give reverse flight) or from an orbital rotation utilising the up and forward motion gained from the initial vertical thrust+nosedown to translate to reverse motion once the ESF's vector has crossed the axis perpendicular to the initial thrust vector.

    Just sayin'.
  14. Phazaar

    This was intended. When Higby first showed the prototype model for the Harasser he stated the third person would be able to choose between extra offensive capability or helping their team by repairing on the move...
  15. Gheeta

    We have already seen how shallow the air game would be without reverse, back in beta when no one had figured out how to do it flying was so incredibly boring that words can not describe it. If there was someone on your tail there was literally nothing you could do about it unless your opponent was completely clueless.

    We have completely unique, skill based, fun and rewarding flight mechanic here. The day it gets messed up my esf turns in to a taxi. And that is a mild reaction since i like to play on ground as well. Every above average pilot would either quit the game or stop flying.

    If this game had as deep flight mechanics as pure flight simulators such as IL2 or Aces High then this might be worth of discussing but that is never going to happen.
    • Up x 1
  16. deaded

    No, I answered one that said all ace pilots would quit the game if AB was removed from vertical thrust on a stall.

    I said; "Well, maybe someone, but if all that keeps them playing is dominating the airgame thru warping all over the sky in all kinds of non-intuitive ways, maybe the game wasn't really ment for them."

    And thats it - if that is everything that keeps them ingame is the AB + vertical move - then I wouldnt blame them if they quit. There is lots more to the game. Today I ended up in 4 "pure" dogfights. They were all br100, and warped all over the place with this move - while keeping nose on me.

    The airgame is completely dominated by these players, and its extremely hard to compete, not to mention get any form of useful training or exercise in fighting them. The result is - new and returning players use ESF for transport mostly.
  17. deaded

    You could still reverse, and stall-turn and wrap your ESF around in all kinds of angles. Not just AB with vertical.
  18. Czuuk

    Complete removal has never been part of the discussion. The discussion was to specialize ESF loadouts so that it only worked with the AB fuel pods equipped on the secondary slot.
  19. Gheeta

    Without AB you would be a pretty much stationary target, which is extremely easy to hit for any semi decent pilot.
    • Up x 1
  20. acksbox

    I think PlanetSide 2's flight model is stupid, and that it's aircraft physics are absurd, but I don't see any reason to remove reverse.

    These are not contemporary aircraft, and trying to make them act as such, or trying to turn PlanetSide 2 into a sim, is folly.

    I'm not opposed to something that makes ESF behave like objects with mass, inertia, and drag, but reverse itself is not a problem.