Should the ESF Reverse Maneuver be removed?

"If it change, I quit the game" the argument of those that don't have arguments, let's be more constructive here, please, no drama.
And we aren't here to speak what metagame is, google it and done. Talk here about the ESF, let's keep our minds in the thread with respect and constructive arguments.
My thought is still up, for me adding new air vehicle and changing a little bit the mechanics would just improve the air gameplay.

I'd also like to see a new air vehicle, but to do what you're suggesting, you'd have to fundamentally change the role of the current ESF, no? And it seems like a bad idea to start making major changes to an aspect of the game that a lot of players have spent many long, frustrating hours trying to perfect.

I suppose you could make a one man jet-like air vehicle designed purely for ground-pounding, and tinker with the ESF so that it's primarily an air-to-air fighter. What would you suggest?

Yes, air vehicles fly forwards, not backwards (12 days esf player)

I'm all for them keeping it in the game, just buff the AA, and unlock the turrets on tanks so they can fight back against pilots the abuse the clear lack of physics and reality connected to the ESFs. I fail to see how you can shoot off 16 rockets/shoot the nose gun from a 90 degree angle above a tank and call it fair.

No ******, if he was shooting the gun or launching rockets it would be impossible.

AA is already too powerful.

More probably it is strong headwind, so the pressure difference under the wings (this is what keeps aircraft in the air) is still there. Most likely it flies in a let's say 80 km/h headwind, with a speed of 60 km/h. So it's relative speed o the vantage point where the camera is at is -20 km/h that's why it flies "backwards". It has nothing to do with "proving it's possible", because by description it is situational at best.

A two man helicopter would be better I think, we have the ESF to face more air than ground, the liberator is more for face ground. So a helicopter could be a anti-infantry aircraft, a demon against ground and a medium damage against ESF, with the physics of a helicopter it would be extremely usefull in Hossin and places where fly is very hard. But to make sense a helicopter physics aircraft, is necessary change a little bit the physics of the ESF.

You'd have to reverse that. The A2A fighter should be a one-seater, while the ground-pounder is a two-seater. The speed of A2A combat would make it nearly impossible for the second person (presumably a secondary gunner) to have any significant impact in A2A. And the ground-pounder would require two seats, simply because a gunship + PS2's high player count means that the pilot of a relatively slow aircraft will need all the help he can get spotting and neutralizing threats on the ground.

Hmmm... We could make the single seaters Empire Specific Fighters of some kind... maybe call them Mosquito (TR), Reaver (NC), and a sci fi looking Scythe (VS). Then we could make the two seater into a bomber gunship combo and call it a Liberator for all of these factions.

These are some really stellar ideas guys, we might just be geniuses, please keep these coming.

I have the best solution to it all.

People i present the Harasser/lightning of the sky.
Think a 2 seater. The hover ability can be fixed at an altitude.
It is about as fast as a liberator but hey it can move that fast in all directions.
The gunner handles a 100 degree swivel turret at the front. (laser guided rocket?) While the pilot has access to the wind mounted rockets and other toys.

Since it's weaker than a lib but bigger than an ESF it would have less fire power than a LIB but have more ammo than an ESF.
Armour would be the same. This would also mean it can out turn an ESF but never outrun it >

Also it would eat an ESF in those boring "hover" fights hehehehehe

That's what the Walker and skyguard is for.

AA has nothing to do with this, the problem is the kind of mechanics that ESF have, and buffing AA weapons is not a good ideia, the air gameplay is too much hardcore, and another fact is the new ESF weapons that will come in the next ESF update, they could get all those weapons and put it on another aircraft with different mechanics and physics. Just use the moment of changes and update.

There is a lot of whining about the reverse maneuver but in my opinion it is of little importance. At least for making it easier for a new pilot. There is a lot of more important things you have to get a grip on when starting out.

I have barely flew at all since the beta, but I'm thinking about giving it a try again. After testing it out a little I tried to make a list of what I need to work on in priority order.

Starting with some of the most basic stuff:
- Avoid unnecessary high speed flying (maybe even using afterburner) in tight air space with lots of friendlies
- Not ramming friendlies even if the air is packed with vehicles (at least not with enough speed to do serious damage)
- Not smashing into the ground, trees or buildings while trying to track enemies and avoiding getting hit
- Avoid unintentionally ramming enemies, at least not until you know it is the only way you are going to take him out

Awareness (evaluate all the following before engaging and continuously re-evaluate):
- Battle front line location in local and surrounding areas
- Potential threat locations
- Try to figure out the self designated roles of each friendly air unit in the area
- Continuously be aware of the position of every one of these air vehicles (and any enemy vehicles)
- Locate terrain features that can be used to hide from incoming fire
- Figure out at least one exit route from the position you are going to before moving forward
- Before advancing to the front line, locate a couple of near by safe points to resupply and repair

Tactical stuff:
- Do not over extending your self. I.e. chase after enemies disregarding the awareness points above.
- Locate and assess new threats (for example by observing incoming fire on other air and retreating friendlies)
- Find your role in a group of air vehicles including a bunch of random players
- Know when to switch from safe play to more aggressive focus based on available air resources and vehicle re-spawn timers
- Knowing if, when and how to back out of a fight
- Target prioritization when engaging a group of enemies
- Knowing exactly when to use and not use after burner to get the most out of its limited fuel capacity
- Before pulling another vehicle after dying, adjust your load-out to what is most suitable for the ongoing battle

Mechanics:
- Air maneuvering during transportation/reconnaissance
- Air maneuvering when doing ground assault
- Compensating for projectile drop when shooting at stationary targets at long/medium distance
- Leading and hitting moving targets
- Staying on target while doing evasive maneuvers
- Specific dog fighting maneuvers

If you have got all of the above nailed down without picking up the reverse maneuver in the process, maybe ESF piloting is not your thing?

So how could the beginner level of pain and discouragement be lowered?
If we disregard the mechanics part still have a lot of things to process and the faster we move the less time we have to process it. All of the things above are more or less (with some slight modifications in wording) relevant to both ground vehicle and infantry game play but the main thing with the ESF is the speed at which you travel and how far into a bad situation you can get your self before you realize you have done something stupid. If anything would make it easier for a new pilot it would be to decrease the maximum forward speed of the vehicle or maybe even lock the thrusters in vertical position permanently if we were to take it to extreme levels. There is no reason what so ever to mess with the vertical thrust since that is almost never what gets us beginner pilots in trouble in the first place.

Ye, sure - when you mostly come across br90+ pilots that have mastered this twitch mechanic after a year of gaming, using vertical + ab while stalling to woosh around on your screen (and outside of it), while keeping their nose at you - that won't get you in trouble.

That'll just send you to a spawntube, won't it?

If you are trying to take on a much more skilled pilot solo, without backing from any other friendly fighters or friendly anti air coverage, you have over extended yourself and gotten your self into a situation you are ill equipped to handle. Nerfing the reverse maneuver will not fix that, you will still be taken down 100% of the time.

Look at these fights, is this really nice? is this really good for new players? is this balanced a jet and a helicopter in one? Now imagine this in a big battle.

Not even a helicopter can to this like that, we really need take a look at this ESF mechanics.

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2...l-life-esf-in-the-making.158245/#post-2266798

Yep, no way. Except for ones the military is developing to do more or less what aircraft in this futuristic game can do.

Makes infinitely more sense to leave the ESF as is (balance aside) and add an air superiority fighter that works as you describe here.

Would you replace the rocket launcher for HA with a fixed emplacement, then create a new class with an LMG + Shield + AV nades + rocket launcher? Or just make a fixed class with fixed implacements? The latter makes all kinds of extra sense.

Pretty shore that the fights aren't the way the fights of planetside 2 are, and this game is a sci fiction game and beyond anything is a game, we shouldn't be comparing real life to the game, makes no sense.