Should buggy’s be looked at?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by GenGrant, Dec 19, 2020.

  1. GenGrant

    While I’m never a fan of nerfs, I feel like buggy’s need to be looked at.

    An open vehicle, that can do acrobatics, never flip over, have better armor than a light tank, while having basically the same cost of tank seem a little absurd. To top it off, it can repair on the fly.

    It’s true, it is fun to gun and drive them. You can do some amazing jumps that any other vehicle would either land on its back or simply explode. However I feel like they are getting out of control.

    So what should we do? Increase the cost? Reduce the acrobatics? Not allow repair on the fly?

    I’m sure I’ll be roasted, but I feel like this needs to be addressed.
    • Up x 2
  2. Demigan

    At some point the Harassers were pretty much at a perfect spot, only the extremely obviously much better performing Vulcan Harasser got any consistent complaints.

    Then out of nowhere for no reason at all the devs decided to up the toughness of the Harasser and simultaneously improve the backseat repair rate. This made the Harassers so incredibly tanky that in combination with their speed and agility they could either destroy their target or get away.
    When complaints started to increase about this ludicrously dumb change the devs finally decided to do something about it: increase the cost. This didnt stop the stupidly broken part of the Harasser at all which seemed to suit the devs fine and now we are in the current situation.

    The real solution: bring back 150 resource Harassers but with that health and backseat repair rate which no one complained about (including the Harasser drivers back then! Now ofcourse the people who abuse it will fight for their OP toy).

    Will this ever happen? Nope. The devs seem invested into keeping it a broken powerful mess. The design of the Harasser right now is mind-bogglingly stupid. Tough enough to rival main battle tanks, fast enough to prevent their enemy from escaping and agile enough to break off and escape itself when the fight goes badly. The Harasser controls 90% of the engagement! Its moronic.
    • Up x 10
  3. JustGotSuspended

    Yeah as usually when you suggest to fix a cheesy method people use to easily farm kills and finally feel good about themselves, you get that minority playerbase that screams and shouts and tries to find every possible excuse for why you're a total moron and their "playstyle" is perfectly balanced. Talk about fixing A2G for example, and you've got a squadron of useless tryhards that will wildly retaliate absurd reasons why imagining A2G isn't balanced is unjustifiable, while containing the stroke they get at the mere thought of someone nerfing their 0 risk high-reward braindead way of racking up kills.

    The rest of players typically don't bother saying anything, because it's so obvious a change is needed, everyone knows it, it's already been discussed to death - nothing comes out of it - only the players that abuse such cheese enraged at someone reminding them how pathetic they are. Most people won't want to deal with such braindead toxicity, and will simply nod in agreement, and avoid replying to the thread.

    That said, I agree with you, and Demigan, that a change is needed. And no, increasing the cost of the harasser is absolutely moronic, and restricts harassers to these elitists, while not solving any of the pressing issues. The harasser has a few problems:
    1) It's too tanky

    It's supposed to be a buggy, yet with the resistance tweaks and that backseat repair buff, you'd basically need to have 4 tanks shooting the thing at once for a chance to kill it.

    2) It's too agile.

    Most vehicles in planetide are slow, clunky, and flip at the slightest inconsistency in terrain - and good luck driving up stuff. Even the flash is pretty pathetic, even with a turbo. The harasser however, travels fast, can climb up hills, carry out awkward maneuvers to evade or flank, and does so without risking to be flipped. Additionally, the gun has a stabilizer, so unlike tanks, it's quite easy to aim while driving/driving...

    3) It's too powerful

    In terms of DPS, it's easy for a harasser to shoot the rear of a tank, and it has access to weapons that will one-clip them. The thing was meant to be a "harasser", not a destroyer. This thing is fast, tanky AND is able to out-damage nearly every vehicle in combat!

    It's a vehicle that's super forgiving, and by the time it is killed, the driver will likely have enough nanites to pull another one. So the nanite change doesn't really do anything.

    A tweak in either the damage output of the weapons (which could easily be halved), and/or the damage resistances and repair rate and/or simply the speed/agility of the thing. Sure, let the thing 1-clip you and tank 4 shots no problem, but don't make it a hit-and-run vehicle then.
    • Up x 2
  4. Trebb

    No point in the nanite cost balance, when

    A) Harasser duos live longer than it takes to regen
    B) can pull an infinite number from a player made base :p
    • Up x 1
  5. Tr34

    Yes, their armor/hp is really high compared to their mobility which allows them to outrun missiles.
    You either get mobility or armor. Getting both makes them overpowered. They need an armor nerf, nanite cost doesn't mean anything
    since you can spawn infinite harassers via ASP cost reduction and membership bonus nanite generation.

    They are better than MBTs and Lightnings in 1v1 situations because their gunner skill cap is a lot lower. Hitting a Harasser with AP cannon 3 times is a lot harder than just spamming Vulcan without any skill requirement. 2 hits should kill a Harasser, that would make it fair against tanks. They also should prevent repairing from the 3rd seat.
    • Up x 1
  6. RabidIBM

    Most of what needs to be said has been, I'm mostly just bumping. I've posted before that each unit has a roll, some have striking power, some have staying power...and then this thing has both. The fact that they still see regular use after their price doubled says a lot.
  7. Exileant

    :confused: I think they should leave them alone. People were complaining about and saying: "The Buggy is useless." Now it is not. Personally I never liked them. The lawnmower noise got on my absolute last nerve. I can drive it well though. It was not worthless then, it is not too powerful now. The cost is too much in my opinion, and I personally miss the points I used to get from them. Solo, if you can destroy them, they stop coming back. o_O In a massive group, have your team call their own or Flashes. The true issue here is people not being able to hit them because they are fast. The thing is, they are supposed to be, if they were slower it would defeat the point of "Sharks on a Whale" tactics. Any weaker and there would be more complaining.

    ;) Sure they could stand to be a bit weaker, however even if they weakened the armor a bit, that would not help many. Most of the ones complaining are struggling to land even 1 shot on them, and the good drivers are gone after that first hit. Speed is the key to play style. In the end, there is nothing that can be done or should be done, aside from get better and learn their movement characteristics so you can defeat them with RELATIVE ease.:D
  8. SawyerAnderson

    I disagree it takes 4 shots from a AP gun to take out a harasser assuming they all hit and there's minimal to no repairs it should be 1-2 shots period it's a truck vs a tank
    • Up x 6
  9. RabidIBM if on cue:

  10. Exileant

    :confused: That depends on where you are hitting them and that is if they are running composite. And believe you me you are set if they are, because you can see them on radar. If they are running Cloak, they only have 3000 A.P. Hit them in the tail once and they are all but done. o_O Without giving too much away, if they are good drivers, you have MORE than enough opportunities to kill them, the only way you lose is missed shots. ;) Beyond that you can kill them 4 ways instantly, double that if you do not care about your Nanites. :eek: And that is just off the top of my head. If you want to win, you have to put forth a little thought, a lot of prayer and a grip of training.
  11. Liewec123

    i'm quite ok with them now that they cost the same as a lightning.
    for years i've been saying that they should cost more (than they used too)
    but at the same time i was hoping that they would receive 360 degree rumble seats.
    now that they cost 300 it'd be interesting to see harassers with maxes become a real thing!
  12. Exileant

    :eek: Now that would be too powerful considering that a Max has access to Split and double specific weaponry. It would render a Lightning Useless even with a H.A. Decimator on back. A full A.P. set would shred any land vehicles in less than 5 seconds. Much faster from behind. Heck they can do that now if you are in communications and have a skilled driver. :confused: The only real reason they have not caught on now is people prefer safety to damage potential, and the reward gain for a group like that for the killer of that layout. That alone is better than any bounty icon to mark you for death. I have killed a group set like that and I still hear the change jingling....

    :( I am glad that is not an option.... You sent chills down my spine...
  13. Exileant

    :confused: I have never gotten how people Quote others and still somehow manage to not read what they are typing under.... I just said" I do not like them because they sound like LAWNMOWERS... When you do not like something, you stay away from it, unless you are a blithering idiot or have absolutely ZERO other options. I do not use them because they sound horrible to me. I want them cheaper so I have more of them to kill... I mean it is IN YOUR QUOTE OF ME.... :eek: READ!!!!! But then again that happens a lot here... ;) As if ON QUEUE...
  14. Demigan

    Classic! Composite armor now gives a straight health improvement, it doesn't give bonusses to directional fire.

    Harassers are detected at around 100m standard. At a leisurely 80km/h they can cross the distance to you within 4,5 seconds and that is if they intend to ram you instead of staying at a small distance of say 50m to hit you with their weapons which means you have a whopping 2 seconds to actually spot and react before they get to you. You also mistake "being able to detect something" with "being able to hit something". I know you are going to claim you can and will hit them repeatedly and how easy it is but the point is that no it isn't.

    You don't even know that Harassers have the same armor on all sides? How can you try to lecture us if you don't know that? And you apparently don't know that the basic resistances of the Harasser have been upgraded as well? A better question would be "what do you know about the Harasser"? At this point I'm wondering if you know if it's running on wheels, tracks or if it's on legs.

    You've given away plenty, such as your complete lack of knowledge on the subject. Thank you goodbye!
    • Up x 2
  15. Exileant

    :D Demi, it has been established long ago, I am a much better player than you, but if you really want to go another round with me, Who am I to deny you another beat down?

    ;) I use you as the staple of all average players. Now to defeat a Harasser team, you need to be above average, I know, impossible for you, but try to keep an open mind. o_O To ME 4.5 seconds is a lifetime, if you are running a Harasser, you better have already closed that distance before I know you are there, otherwise you will have suffered two - three CANNON hits before you are in range to truly do anything worthwhile to me. Guess what? They have died on approach... As I said decent drivers give you plenty of time to kill them by staying at a medium distance. :eek: Do you know what you can do to a Harasser at Medium distance with A.P. Lightning rounds? Or M.B.T. Heat rounds? M.B.T. A.P. seem to shoot a bit slower so you may need more skill there. That is even if you plan on fighting them in a tank.

    :confused: Also, for your information, 2 seconds is more than enough time to spot and mount an attack. Your brain SHOULD operate in the bits per second range, with practice you can easily train yourself with color recognition. 2 seconds is enough to drop them at least 1,500 armor and that is enough of an advantage for you to win any fight, with ease. I am a better player than you, however we are both human so the potential is the there, probably.

    o_O As for Harassers having the same armor on all sides, if that is true, (I just tested it and it is not.... Harassers take more damage from the rear, 3 shots of Lighting A.P. To kill it period, but from the front there is a slight delay before it explodes likely as a result of a few points left over that must burn away before death the second after the shots impact.) which I highly doubt, (and was right to) then that makes Harassers far weaker that I originally thought. And this would undoubtedly increase my kill times, because I can just hit them center mass instead of aiming for the small 5th wheel looking tray. :D So that would mean you are missing to the point of pathetic if you are saying you need all this time to kill them. The ONLY Harasser you have to worry about is a T.R. Harasser, due to their unique straight line fast fire weaponry. These are the only ones were every millisecond count,, even so, if you do everything right, you still will kill them, or run them away screaming. :p And they usually flip themselves in the process.

    :cool: You are welcome, Demi.
  16. Demigan

    As far as I am aware the only thing we proved was that you are an average/below average player at best who proclaims he's a gaming god. The "best" excuses for this were on the lines of "you cant understand my genius" and "I was meming".

    I want everyone to appreciate a man who believes he can fire 3 shots in 4.5 seconds and kill a composite Harasser. The only weapons that can fire 3 shots in 4.5 seconds are things like Vipers, Lightning HEAT and the Prowler HEAT. Unfortunately a Lightning HEAT for example deals a bit more than 1800 damage, which is slightly more than 50% of a composite Harassers health.

    Since that already shows everyone again how badly informed you are I'm just going to point out other stuff: you proclaim that its easy to deal with Harassers so there's no reason to nerf it, yet you also proclaim that you have to be better than the average player to stop them effectively. Note that "average player and anyone less than average" should include about 70% of the playerbase if not more (look up how Bellcurves work). That in itself would be more than enough reason to rebalance Harassers.

    Also you say you've tested the Harassers armor facings, yet you also say you try to hit the rear tray of the Harasser for rear-hits. I've already explained to you that the directional armor on vehicles is based on your position, rather than where you hit the target. So if you are above the Harasser and hit the rear then it'll still be a top-armor hit. If you are on the side of the Harasser and hit the front hood or the rear of the Harasser, its still a side-hit etc. The fact that basic information like this doesnt filter through to you is pretty much standard with you isnt it?
    • Up x 3
  17. Exileant

    ;) People here tolerate you because you live here. You maxed out your little guns on the old versions of the game when there was little else to do and have all but stopped playing. You think you know how to play but the reality is every time you type, people see a little more of what you are really about. :D Nothing. You dodged me repeatedly, first lying and saying you had no P.S.4 then when caught in that lie, you came back with the sorry excuse that you just do not play it anymore because of a lack of space, of which your stats told on you. I prove by doing. Your so called data you try to use leaves out just about all of the necessary factors that take place in a battle.

    :confused: For example, you can hit any vehicle from the rear if you wait for them to make the mistake at turn away from you, in your view it will look like the opposing sides tires slip behind the other, giving you a brief window to fire a shell just behind your target and it hit in when otherwise if the vehicle were completely perpendicular to you your shell would miss. To me, that is basic geometry. It is obvious my basic and your basic are in two different worlds.

    :rolleyes: Beside this, you JUST came out with the bull that Harassers have the same armor ON ALL SIDES.... As if Harassers somehow are omitted to basic vehicle code... So Top, Sides, Rear, and Bottom, should not matter in your book. Why are you bothering to argue about it now? Because you were wrong.

    o_O The fact is Demi, the true top players are whipping your glass and not telling you how they are doing it, you spent the majority of your time on foot, so you know next to nothing about vehicular tactics. As it is beyond you to learn on your own, so you cry along with the rest saying: :( "There is no other way, nerf it please, I am weak take pity on me, boo-hoo..." There is ALWAYS a way to kill something in this game. There are just too many options for there not to be.

    :confused: I am not even going to bother with your so-called Data sites that you visit. Just like My averages wound up being better than yours even though you claimed otherwise, I am sure you have something wrong here too.... I will however direct you to the music video I made when I post it. Without even trying it shows off one of may ways to kill a Harasser regardless of rank. I kill the best of the best. Feel free to look up some of the names, and then shut up. I will save you, and get you started so you do not ALWAYS get your butt kicked by the big, scary, nasty wittle two doowa..... Hahahaha!:D
  18. Demigan

    A case of mistaken identity. I know you had some kind of discussion like that but it wasnt with me. Anyway that doesnt really change your performance or excuse your god complex.

    You shoot the usual barrage of nonsense. Like saying in one and the same sentence that you dont check data sites but also that your averages are higher than mine. How would you even know? Or you again trying to claim that the Harrasser has less armor in the back and then going on about basic geometry. You dont have the capacity to realize that Harassers can have a top/side/rear/bottom armor that all have receiced the same values? This is also how aircraft armors are handled, with for instance the Valkyrie having the same armor on all sides except the bottom which has increased resistances. Or saying I spend barely any time in vehicles which is also not true.

    If you are going to spout this nonsense at least have the decency to do it in the blue style you've chosen and keep replacing words with "smurf", because thats about the value of any conversation with you.
  19. Clone117

    Well mbts and other vehicles are still pretty much helpless against harassers. The only scenarios in which they lose an engagments comes down to 3 that i know of. 1 they hit mines. 2 i blew em up with a well timed c4 trap in which i successfully bait em into. 3. A bunch of ppl manage to entrap said harasser blocking its escape just long enough to destroy. The last is the most relaible but requires to much manpower. And if its a harasser squad. Then well. S.O.L.
  20. ObiVanuKenobi

    Against a competent fully manned MBT Harasser has almost no chance unless you're good at the backseat c4 trick but even then if the MBT driver is experienced enough to know about it you'll most likely lose.
    Lightning is a skill matchup, a good Lightning driver can kill Harassers easily.