Shotguns ruined the TTK/Skill required/Close Quarter Combat of Planetside 2..We need higher TTK!

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Rustler, Mar 23, 2013.

  1. Xind

    To be frank, CQC was already dominated by Semi-Auto/Auto Shotguns and SMGs before pump actions were introduced. If you were in CQC these weapons were already better choices, OHK aside.

    You get two chances with UBGL, unless your an engineer, in which case go APE.

    I see no difference in the skill of a sniper versus the skill of a shotgun user.

    Shooting people from over 100m away, who may not of even rendered you, who are engaged in battle with other opponents in no way says more skillful than sneaking up behind someone and blasting them in the back. They both operate on the same concepts of positioning, awareness, and sneak assault. If people were always aware of where a sniper was sniping from, them it would be much harder for them to accomplish their task, but that is rarely the case. Chances are, you will KNOW where a shotgun LA will come from and he does have to get within knife range to OHK you.
  2. Warlyik

    I disagree on dying every time you get caught off guard. You can do everything right, check and re-check everything, and still have someone drop in behind you. Fact is, it's so stupidly, incredibly easy to get the drop on someone in this game that it shouldn't have such a significant advantage.

    A moderate advantage, yes. It should give you a clear opportunity to dispatch your opponent before they kill you in return. But it should not confer such an advantage that the other individual literally has zero chance to even fire back and attempt to defend himself. Something so disgustingly easy, with a game this large, should not be rewarded that much. There's zero way for any individual or hell, even teams, to counter every single way to get the drop on someone in most of the CQC locations where this is an issue.

    Point is, combat shouldn't end the moment you get the drop on someone. It shouldn't be that automatic. And even beyond this, CQC shouldn't be automatic trading kills with whoever sees/fires at a target first. There needs to be room for actual combat to evolve and develop - otherwise the whole experience is shallow and unsatisfying.
  3. smokemaker

    "People like you think "Skill" should end the moment either you or someone else opens fire on a target."
    Yes and no. Once I have gotten myself in position to kill, Ideally its a trigger pull and providing my aim is good. You should indeed die. But that does not end my skill. I must survive and evade afterwards. To me this is as important if not more important then the kill itself.

    "You don't want players to be able to fight back because you know you aren't as good as you think you are."
    If that makes you feel better saying it, fine. But words about "skill" from the dead are meaningless. And has no impact on me.

    "Your gameplay philosophy relies mostly on dumb luck to get the drop on people so that there's no exchange of fire, and thus no way for you to lose in that situation."
    Again yes and no. My philosophy requires me to use intelligent movements and tactical postioning. Again almost if not more important then the kill itself. Luck has nothing to do with me showing up behind you unseen and blasting you. I took my time to get there. This is the aspect of the kill i enjoy the most. And indeed, if i do my job right, you will have ZERO chance to retaliate.

    "You're opposed to a richer experience because you benefit from the way things are."
    Exact opposite. Nerf's remove option and enhance nothing. I enjoy a deeply rich tactical simulation. 89-93 US army, the closer to realistic the better. I enjoy the hunt, stalk, kill, and finally the evading. Very rewarding to me personally.

    ", it's people like you that end up killing games."
    Nerfs are bad. If shotguns OP, then make a shot gun specific armor and sell it like the shotgun. Far better of an option then a nerf. In my minds eye, its the nerfers that are "killing the game".

    " People like you move like a plague of locusts from one FPS to the next, abusing any and all exploitative features of the game..."
    Incorrect assumption in regards to my play style. I play within the gaming rules.

    "to make life miserable for others,"
    Here we agree, its bonus if i can get tears in a tell in regards to me killing them. I do not care how others think in regards to my play style. Some targets are funnier then others and tears are always welcome.

    "If you were really good at this game, if you were skilled all-around, you wouldn't be afraid of raising the TTK."
    My idea of "skills" is not squirt guns and circle jerks till finally someone dies. My idea of skill is the hunt, stalking, kill, and evading. Staying alive is a world full of fast TTK weapons is an art that you will never understand. Aiming is only a small part of it for me. And might i add, I am quite good at.

    "Unfortunately, a lot of people are in it for the cheap kills/thrills. Balance, Fun, and Interesting Gameplay be damned."
    I find the current game very fun, balanced, and thrilling. I love one hit kill mechanics because they reward lazy and stupid with instant death. It is how it should be.

    Now I know you will not understand or like my position. But that does not bother me at all. I fight all nerf threads to show my support to the other side of the argument. If my play style makes you sad, so be it. I could not care less.

    With respect of course.
  4. Rustler

    Like I said.

    If somebody isn't good enough to kill you if he has the jump on you with a conventional weapon(LMG,Carbine,AR) then he really didn't deserve to kill you.

    Now if a person with a Convetional weapon (LMG,carbine,AR) gets a jump on a person with a shotgun...The person with a shotgun has a good chance at turning around and kill you in .3 seconds.

    If you dont see anything wrong with this....then I dont know what to say.

    I know you saying ambush should mean something which they do.....the person who ambushes somebody almost always wins but it should be instant kill like u want it.
  5. Niller

    Higher TTK would just mean everyone would circle jerk eachother, that would look and feel very silly. For the shotguns, i only get killed by them very rarely, but they could make them look more like shotguns, so you can see what you're engaging. I don't know what it should be though.
    • Up x 1
  6. Xind

    I'm gonna throw this out here:

    How is sniping an unsuspecting target in the head at all different than appearing behind an unsuspecting target with a shotgun?
    Is aiming at someone not expecting to die with a OHK weapon somehow made more difficult because you are further away?
  7. Maljas23

    Love the people throwing insults at those who disagree with raising TTK. You guys should probably exit this thread because your silly insults have no fathomable meaning in this argument.

    @OP: I disagree with raising TTK and think the current is fine because, as others have said, games with high TTK turn into circle jerks, bunny hopping, dolphin diving, and bushwooking. I am sorry that your reaction times can't handle the TTK in current PS2, but I really doubt it will change. If it even gets spoken about at SOE and posted on these forums, you can be sure that I will fight against it as much as I can.

    You high TTK people define "skill" by having time to react to someone or something shooting at you. Once again, I disagree. Tactical placement, situtaional awareness, and taking cover are all major factors in this game's and many other low TTK games' gunplay. Skill in PS2 is about knowing when to move and when to fire. Its about knowing how to pick the right tools for the job and how to get it done effectively. Weapons vary because there are many different situations you can be in that call for that certain type of weapon.

    Shotguns are superior at CQC because thats all they are good at. All other weapon types can handle at least 2/3 different ranges(Short,Medium,Long). Shotguns are ONLY good at CQC. SMGs can be used at Short-Medium range, LMGs can be used, depending on which one you use, in all three ranges, Assault rifles can be used in all three ranges, and finally Carbines can be used in generally Short-Medium range.

    Once again, Shotguns are ONLY good a CQC. That is why they dominate CQC and that is why they are balanced.
  8. Urban Cohort

    Honestly, if someone who has the drop on me at close range fails to kill me, there are deeper underlying problems than the game's mechanics.

    I guess my view on TTK comes from the fact that I have a very "deal with it" sort of attitude towards PS2. Most deaths I've had have been ambushed? Look, in the future. Shot from behind? My 6 warrants a check every now and then. Turned a corner and got Peter Wellered by 8 dudes? How about I slice that corner properly next time? Is ABC not working? Try XYZ. So on, so forth...

    Shotguns are the only things that really present problems, but I think that could be settled by drastically increasing their spread so that they're basically throwing pillows at you from beyond 15m - no real need to touch TTK, in my honest opinion.
  9. Rustler

    Im talking about all shotguns.

    SMG's kind requires people to actually aim the majority of their bullets, so I never saw them as being hugely over powered in certain CQC situations.....However in the range between meduim and very close range, the SMG does have a nice advantage.

    With the UBGL, if u miss u actually have to reload....Like I said, I made threads about n00btubes being out of this game, I really hate them but they didnt have the impact like shotguns.

    As for sniper OHK you skill vs shotgun skill....I see the difference.

    I played this game since August, and I think I only been OHK like 5 times.....Most of the time people arnt skill ful enough, so they miss but they still hit, which gives me enough time to hide.

    Shotguns on the other hand, I die pratically ASAP, most of the times....Is not even a battle.

    With snipers, I can actually close the distance if I wanted to kill them by using cover.

    Huge difference man.
  10. smokemaker

    "That meant they needed good accuracy while stafing or when ADS....CQC was actually fun/skillful."
    Very limited idea of skill. Skills should not start once you start to take fire but the moment you spawn.
  11. Eyeklops

    Getting the "jump" should provide a distinct advantage, but not guarantee a win with any infantry weapon.
  12. Rustler

    Like I said...ban all OHK, i dont give a damn.

    But stop pretending like OHK snipers ruined the game like shotguns have lol.

    Rarely do snipers get OHK, most of the time they miss...When they do they either hit you or you hear the bullet/ see the direction is coming from so you have enough time to hide.

    and like I said I only be OHK by snipers like 5 times and I been playing this game since August.

    Shotguns on the other hand they just kill you ASAP...I been killed ASAP countless of times....Having a convetional weapon against shotguns in CQC really feels like being handicap.

    Hell I can go against snipers with my LMG, by closing the distance and making the sniper miss......hard to do that against a shotgun.
  13. Maljas23

    You are not guaranteed a win with anything in this game. Pumps are a high risk - high reward weapon which means that if I miss my first shot in CQC, the chance of me winning goes down dramatically. If you catch someone unaware with ANY weapon in this game, it is likely they are finished, but it is not guaranteed.
  14. Rustler

    huh.....People who shoot you first have a huge advatange...if they can't finish you off and you had the skill to kill them.....I see nothing wrong.
  15. Warlyik

    There's an extremely easy way to make sure you almost never get killed by a Sniper:

    Move. Constantly.

    Which is what you should be doing anyway.

    If you can't manage that, then you deserve to be killed. Speaking from many hours of personal experience, sniping is not easy in this game. Jerky character models, bad hit detection (lol at watching shots go through people for no damage), and the larger issue of explosives everywhere. Now, factor in that Infiltrators have zero options against enemy Vehicles, and this is the class that -should- absolutely dominate at Anti-Infantry. It's the only class that can only kill Infantry.

    My challenge to you would be try it out for a few days. See just how often playing an Infiltrator is useless (95% of the time), how much lower your score tends to be, how frail you are against other classes, how useless cloak is half the time, etc. Oh, and try getting a decent number of kills WITHOUT headshots. See how many times you can 2-body-hit someone with a reaction time faster than your grandma's.
    • Up x 1
  16. Bl4ckVoid

    REALLY? After you were shot dead with a headshot?
  17. smokemaker

    A shot to the back with a shotgun and you want to turn around and start your little dance? lol
    Looking for easy mode?
    Ideally, you should not have let me get to your back.
    Tactical positioning is currently and rightfully rewarded.
  18. NietCheese


    2 of the most annoying things about this game, that frequently have me considering uninstalling it and calling it "pay to win"

    1) Pump action shotguns. Should be a 2 shot body shot kill at close range, even if the shotgun does 90% damage in 1 shell, there should be at least a little bit of skill required to use them. Headshot should be 1 shot kill.

    2) SMG in the hands of infiltrators. The times when my fully shielded NC heavy has been dropped by an infiltrator with an SMG are numerous. Even toe to toe, when I know he is in the room. How on earth they thought it was ok to give a special ops class a weapon with DPS blows my mind. He can beat toe to toe front line heavy assault classes. Just madness and terrible game design for a few quick bucks.

    All about the money. Because this is not smart game design, at all and just induces rage and makes people quit the game.
  19. Eyeklops

    I agree with most of what you said, but I had no problem getting two long range body shots in PS1, and sniping in that game was fairly popular. In some ways sniping in PS1 was more tactical than PS2 as counter snipers couldn't insta-kill me. Sniper duels would take 10's of minutes, it was kinda fun.
  20. Rustler

    No easy mode is that getting shot by a convetional weapon(LMG,AR,CARBINE) from the back and a person with a shotgun turning around to kill you in .2 seconds....thats easy mode.

    How it used to be in PS2 was you shot somebody with a back with a convetional weapon(LMG,AR,Carbine) you kill him if your good enough or the other person who also have a convetional weapon makes a comeback and kicks your ***.

    Anything wrong with this?

    Doesn't surprise me however, that you dont know much about Infantry battles...I checked your stats.

    Currently Online: No
    Server: Helios
    Outfit: Not a member of an outfit
    Experience Points: 2026480
    Experience per Minute: 101.34
    Certification Points: 10874
    Percent to next Cert: 91%
    Kills: 3788
    Assists: 2370
    Deaths: 1743
    K/D Ratio: 2.17
    K+Assists/D Ratio: 3.53
    Headshots: 235
    Revenge Count: 120
    Vehicles Killed: 2284
    Damage Given: 11680051
    Damage Taken: 1499660
    Most Played Class: Engineer
    Most Played Vehicle: Scythe
    Most Played Weapon: Force-Blade
    Medals: 44
    Facilities Defended: 900
    Facilities Captured: 271

    Basically you play vehicles, so don't have much knowledge of infantry battles.