Shotguns ruined the TTK/Skill required/Close Quarter Combat of Planetside 2..We need higher TTK!

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Rustler, Mar 23, 2013.

  1. Rustler

    This is the main reason I don't like the shotgun.

    If any of you played the game back when it launched...back before people bought the shotguns, you could tell the TTK in close quarter fights was actually reasonable.

    People actually had time to react, and the guns fights at close quarters were just more skillful, because nobody died with like 2 shots in .3 seconds(Unless u faced a scatmax)....this led to skill actually mattering in close quarter since you could actually react.

    Now however, everybody has shotguns....Rarely is their fun close quarter battles where you can make a comback if you get caught since shotguns kills so fast.

    In beta, it was even more skillful since I remember they always reset certs so rarely did people have shotguns(Hell I think for a while you couldn't get them).

    So yes....This is a big reason why the game isn't fun in close quarters anymore and why it doesn't require as much skill as it once did.

    I miss the days where a man could get shot but make a comeback.......It was just fun/skillful.

    So IMO SOE needs to raise TTK somewhat....So people can actually react and so skill will matter in close quarter fights.

    This will make the game funner/raise the skill cap....

    It just adds depth to CQC when you can actually react instead of your dead ASAP because shotgun shot you.
    • Up x 52
  2. phreec

    It's a fundamental flaw with implementing shotguns to a otherwise slow TTK game. There's really no easy way to balance shotguns since they're flawed from the very beginning. They're worthless after a certain range but at CQC they're nigh impossible to outgun unless ALL guns have fast TTK and that's the last thing we want in this game.

    A shotgun doesn't require much aim-skill to use, it's mostly about positioning and only picking your fights in the right situations, like NC MAX's do. It's a skill on its own to position yourself right but I agree that even then, the better shot should still win.
    • Up x 15
  3. NDroid

    To be honest I'm beginning to feel the same way about the Pump Action Shotguns in particular and CQC fights. As 1-hit-kill weapons at close range they obviously completely dominate fights now, but they also make them less interesting overall. Having CQC boil down to who instagibs the other first is just boring in this type of game.

    I think the Semi Auto shotguns fill the shotgun niche quite well and while the Full Auto ones are pushing it they are at least somewhat balanced by reload times and low ammo efficiency. The Pump Action shotguns however are just overkill.
    • Up x 16
  4. Rustler

    Im glad Im not alone on this.
    • Up x 4
  5. Sebyos

    Gotta say I simply avoid CQC now. It's just the playground where lower skilled people can own you in 1 or 2 shots. I prefer mid to long range where skills matter. It's just much more fun to kill someone when you just straight up shot better than him rather than just happen to have a shotgun and OHK people around a corner.

    I got 700 kills on my nova and 100 on my Phobos, but I just don't use them anymore. I take pride in winning gunfights and I enjoy that. I take absolutely no pride in mowing people with a shotgun.

    I guess the game is different for everyone. I can imagine people placing efficiency above fun or having fun with shotguns, but yeah that's really not my thing. What I can't understand tough, is people playing without challenge which is inevitable with shotguns.

    I just want to say to shotgun users, try to do some medium long range stuff and see how it goes. I had a blast yesterday I went 24-1 and even better between Ceres and TI running from cover to cover, poking shots, dodging a ton of sniper shots and Phoenixes while outplaying my enemies. It's crazy the amount of bullets flying by when constantly on the run in a large long range engagement. Damn it's fun.
    • Up x 2
  6. Loegi

    I disagree. The TTK was always too short, shotguns didn't change that in my opinion.
    • Up x 3
  7. SinerAthin

    I actually agree.

    In Planetside 2, I prefer long range fights with Carbines. Snipers and LMGs because it better rewards good aim, fire maneuvers etc, and it has a really cool atmosphere as you study the battlefield before you.

    CQC basically consists of people sprinting around like maniacs doped up on amphetamine and Redbull, clicking on the enemy for insta-gratification. It almost reminds me of a specific game that should not be mentioned on these forums.
    • Up x 12
  8. IMTasty

    I completely agree, and I am a guy who uses shotguns in towers and such, simply because I feel not doing so would be putting myself at a major disadvantage.
    • Up x 3
  9. Urban Cohort

    My memory of beta is basically that TTK was the same as it is now (shotgun or no), except back then we had infils running around with shotguns and laying down entire squads of enemies before being taken down themselves.

    TTK is fine - this isn't a game where a high TTK has a place...and shotguns seem okay for the most any case, who takes the fight is generally the person who gets the drop on the other guy and has superior aim, shotgun or no (though if you have both + a shotgun then it's basically a done deal).
    • Up x 1
  10. Warlyik

    PlanetSide 2 is not an "otherwise slow TTK game". The ONLY part of this game that has slow TTK is Vehicle vs. Vehicle fights, and that's assuming no hits in the rear. Tank vs. Tank in open field facing each other is the slowest TTK in the game right now.. and guess what, it's relatively enjoyable. It's enjoyable because both parties get a chance to show how they react, how good their aim is, how they use terrain or other advantages, etc. There's a reason why I think driving around my Vanguard is generally more fun than the rest of the game.

    The reason Low TTK sucks is because it actually decreases variation in the game - that includes weapons and tactics. Everything can be summed up by "he who shoots first, wins". Weapons have less room to differentiate themselves. Players have less room to show their ability to improvise in combat. Instead of niche weapons, we have one or two god-weapons with absurdly low TTK and little skill requirement mopping up everyone else. What next, a one-hit-anywhere Sniper Rifle? Does anyone actually think that will improve the game? As a heavy Infiltrator player, the answer is a resounding "no". A one-body-hit-kill Sniper Rifle would be a detriment to gameplay. Just like these one-hit shotties are a detriment to CQC.

    Now, the Devs are in a bit of a pickle. How do they release new, interesting weapons that are actually EFFECTIVE without also stepping on every other weapon's toes or further reducing the TTK? If they release High TTK weapons, nobody will buy them because they suck and something else already works better. There's only so far you can increase accuracy and other statistics to make them useful - especially considering those weapon stats are already very saturated (aka, we already have a huge number of pretty accurate weapons).

    My personal opinion is that Infantry combat needs a huge revision. A roughly doubling of the current TTK. There are ways to do that - effectively doubling the health of everyone, and then rebalancing vehicle damage against that since I feel for the most part that vehicles are fine (barring some outstanding issues mostly unrelated to TTK). But infantry combat is not fine. I don't understand how anyone has any fun in CQC. The chaotic nature of the game + these low TTK weapons is just a recipe for frustration. I'd prefer more methodical, tactical combat fostered by a higher overall TTK.

    • Up x 17
  11. Sorusi

    I agree entirely, it is just getting worse everyday as more people buy into the overpowered crutch weapons...
    • Up x 4
  12. hawken is better

    I made a post in another thread regarding what I think could be a hard counter to shotguns without actually ruining shotguns:

    • Up x 1
  13. Gustavo M

    You forgot about OHKO Sniper rifles, my friend.
  14. Loegi

    Totally agree with the first point. Totally disagree with the second one. That would make the time to react or evade or outplay people even shorter, and people will be rewarded too much for getting a lucky headshot.
    • Up x 2
  15. Sebyos

    You forgot about Nano 5 my friend.
  16. Gustavo M

    You forgot that you can't do anything with three bars of HP left, my friend.
    • Up x 2
  17. Sebyos

    You underestimate me greatly.
    • Up x 1
  18. Warlyik

    Making every headshot a one-shot would make using a Sniper Rifle useless. It would encourage random spray'n'pray and change nothing. It would further LOWER the TTK instead of raise it. It would destroy combat and make this just another CoD game, where every weapon can kill in 1-2 hits. It ignores the fact that this is a futuristic shooter where every infantry except MAX suits have kinetic energy barriers that protect health from most weapons initially.

    There is no OHKO Sniper Rifle in PS2. You have to hit the head, and you have to be within a certain range even on the most powerful ones. And that's extremely difficult to do against opponents that are aware and/or not stupid (aka constantly moving). If you stand still in the open with snipers around, expect to get killed. That's your fault. Easy pickings for people like me.
    • Up x 5
  19. vastaitku

    I just got the auraxium medal for the Jaguar so I switched to the automatic shotgun, and it's hilarious! Three dudes capping a point? No problem, just finish the last one off with the sidearm. Shotguns completely dominate when the fighting is in super close quarters. In fact, they feel more like a tool than a weapon. Generator broken? Pull out the repair gun. Friendly corpses unaware that there is no quit in TR? Pull out the magic wand. Enemies inside a building? Whip out that shotgun.

    CQC would be pretty nuts if everybody ran with shotguns.
    • Up x 7
  20. Olek

    That is actually incorrect, When several rounds are fired in a burst from any machine gun, each round takes a slightly different trajectory. The pattern these rounds form on the way to the target is called a cone of fire. This pattern is caused primarily by vibration of the machine gun and variations in ammunition and atmospheric conditions.

    Recoil is another factor added to the above, as even a weapon mounted on a tripod has a cone of fire.