Shotguns and OPness.

Shotties seem OP because everytime you round a corner there's a handful of zergfit BR10s with shotties waiting for you.

Do they have a larger projectile? I can literally count on one hand the times I've been snipes with a shotgun, out of thousands and thousands of deaths.

How can a low RoF, effective only at close range weapon be OP?

A carbine, or AR or LMG (and even some SMG) can engage effectively at far higher distance and pumping tens of rounds per second.

By the same token, one could say the NS-45 Pilot is an OP sidearm. The NS-45 Pilot shoots a three rounds burst at 750 RPM, meaning one round every 80 ms during the burst. At 8 meters or less you get head-shotted 3 times in 160 ms, dying on the spot (1200 DMG).

I was trying to prevent you or others using that argument. The usual method of "proving" their point when I challenge them is "I see it so it's true".

As far as I've determined, in PS2 a hit is only registered if the client of the victim confirms it. So by the time you get killed you've also seen your enemy walk into the door. The only way you die behind walls is when you were visible, then ran behind a wall but due to lag and latency your opponent still saw you in the open and killed you.

The only time's I've been killed by behind a wall when they never entered on my screen was with a lagswitcher, which happened maybe twice in all the time I've played even during horrible server latency periods and they weren't even using a shotgun at that. So regardless of the nuances of programming, the result of getting killed by shotgun users that never entered on your screen doesn't happen. Or else I would like to see some video of it, doesn't matter how old.

Because, while there is some overlap between AR/Carbine/LMG in the middle to long ranges and with the Carbines and SMGs in shorter ones. By the time you get to the <7m range, the Shotty is uncontested. 7-15m the shotty will probably lose to the SMG but inside that (eg door breaching distances) a competent shotgunner should end you.

But that's comparable to saying that a Sniper rife is OP because versus a Carbine at 200m it'll win, the argument only gains traction with the shotty because it's a lot easier to get the kill shot on someone 5m away.

The thing is it's not generally OP, but it is situationally OP.

I always find shotgun QQ to be especially entertaining.
They're a huge self nerf, outside of spitting distance you are outgunned by every weapon in the game.
And inside of spitting distance you still rely on RNGesus to not get outgunned,
if even 4 of the 12 randomly spread pellets miss the target it turns your 2 shot kill into a 3 shot kill at which point your outgunned in the only range that you can perform in...

Honestly I've had times were I've been smited by RNGesus and not got the 2 shot kill and ended up getting killed by a dude hip firing a gauss saw...

Plus and probably the biggest reason that shotgun QQ is so funny, it is designed to be good at cqc!
People are going into cqc fights with a shotgunner using their long range carbines and then complaining that they got outgunned.
Let's swap it around shall we? I'll start spamming my shotty at that carbine guy from 100m and when he wrecks me shall I complain that carbine are OP because I took the wrong tool for the fight?

OK. I've spent the last hour or so using a Baron with slugs, 1x, and extended mag. It's really not bad, but its lack of range makes it not good either. 2-3 body shots within 20m, and 3-4 at 30 meters, or 1 headshot and a body shot at around 30m. Plus they have a .75 ADS speed. I might try this for my point hold medic gun for a while. But still, that's absolutely shamed by 200 damage model guns, all while being harder to use. Yes, turning a corner and getting 1-shot by a pump sucks, but that's literally the only thing the gun does. I just don't understand the hate for these things.

The problem I have with shotguns is that no matter how you play and how hard you've worked on your playstyle, if you're unlucky enough to run into someone with a shotgun at close range, there is nothing you can do. People don't think they're overpowered, they're just annoying to fight against. It is easy enough to avoid someone with a shotgun once you know they're there (unless it's someone with ambusher autoshotty), but it's the sudden deaths that you can't avoid that are frustrating. It's just annoying knowing that no matter how much time you've invested in improving your own skills, you can be killed basically instantly by a BR10 who is really lost and is wandering aimlessly with a shotgun.

[Question] At what range do most engagements take place in planetside 2, regarding infa vs infa? On average?


My experience against the "buckshot bandit" comes down to my awareness.

1 out of 20 times they get me with the insta-death. As it should be when I get caught slipping. I was taught that you must always respect the enemy and their capabilities. So if your running around feeling good about yourself with that last kill thinking this is easy. Sometimes the player can be blamed for thier lack of awareness and arrogance when the "buckshot bandit" strikes.

I have no beef with the "buckshot bandits" whatsoever. But I will say "Reload is a ......! if they miss.

o7

Planetside 2 keeps you humble killer. o7

Try not to look at the BR. Just because I was a low BR player and a noob at the game. That doesn't mean I checked my FPS experience and hours in other FPS games at the door.

Remember, the reality is...a pure noob is rare in these times.

I play Infil and have daily ritual dances with those dastardly "shotgun bandits".

I think this is core of the problem.

When you run into a shotgunner in close range, you can do things against them. It's no different than being at long-range when running into someone holding a long-range weapon while you have a shorter ranged weapon. You are at a disadvantage, but it's not an unwinnable fight. It's likely that your opponent will get the drop on you and deal so much damage that it becomes an almost unwinnable battle though, but that's no different from being engaged by a shotgun.

Another part of this core problem is the "if you're unlucky enough". If you are unlucky you can get caught by a mid-range weapon while holding a CQC weapon and lose, or any other mutation of that scenario. It's no different no matter if you are engaged by a shotgun, LMG or sniper in their ideal range while you are holding something that doesn't shine at that range. You could argue that in CQC you have less time to react and your opponent is more likely to score multiple hits, but you don't need a shotgun to do that.

And then there's the question how much is it about luck? As an example you are holding a pointroom under siege with enemies just outside the door. With a CQC weapon you are likely held up near the doorway because that's where you are at the best range. With a mid-range weapon you are going to be a bit farther back in the room so that you are at your ideal range and longer range players will be even farther back. That's why you'll find sniper/BR/long-range weapon players at the back of such a room most of the time, and the shorter your range the closer to the door you'll find them.
This scenario can be found just about anywhere, the shorter the range, the closer the player tries to be when the engagement begins, the longer the range the farther the player tries to be. It's rare to find a CQC Carbine wielder near cover that overlooks a large expansive area, that player will be looking for the area with all the tiny bits and pieces of cover that allow him to close the distance before the engagement starts.
So there's little luck involved, situational awareness over a large portion of the battlefield and using your weapon at the right range are just as much skills as being able to aim for the head is, and in my opinion have always been the higher skills to learn.

And skill? "Shotguns require less skill!". While shotguns are more lenient for scoring hits, they aren't as lenient when it comes to actually finishing off an opponent.

Iridar for example is a good veteran of the game with a strong knowledge of it's workings, but that doesn't mean he can't suffer from shotguns requiring a skill to be competitive:

In the video you see that because of the low ROF of the weapon, firing a fraction too early or too late can mean a partial hit or a full miss. In the meantime his opponent can just hold the trigger and try to look at him for enough hits to score a kill. This shows how shotguns can often require more skill to use in CQC as a miss is far more punishing and you need to be picture-perfect with your shot to keep ahead of your enemy's TTK.

More can be read and found here:
http://iridar.net/planetside2/weapons/shotguns/

Plenty of people think they are OP and will complain loudly about it.
I've yet to see the autoshotty+ambusher work, when using ambusher you kind of have a huge COF that you need to settle before you hold that trigger or a shot at center mass might land at the far left of your screen. And it's annoying that people think that a BR10 can easily beat them with a shotgun if they "get lucky". Either the BR10 was skillful to land picture-perfect hits (and able to get in close), or you dropped the ball and didn't keep your distance+didn't have the skill to hold the trigger and look at him enough to win.

I think it is vastly different to fighting someone at long range, because at longer ranges you can disengage if the fight isn't favourable. If you get caught out in CQC you often can't disengage. It's the insane alpha damage of pump actions and the ease of use of auto shotties that make them frustrating to be killed by at close range.

I know how shotguns work, and I know they're not necessarily the most OP weapons which'll let you get an amazing KD. It's like being C4'd; it's not effective for the person using it, but it's annoying to die to.

And when I talk about game skill, I'm not just talking about aiming, that's only half the talent, situational awareness is important too. But no amount of situational awareness can keep you from being unlucky enough to round the corner into someone with a pump action. It just happens. It's the fact that that gunfight is basically lost before it has even begun that irritates a lot of people, myself included.

All I see in that video is a dude with bad aim. Just went and played a 2hour session, usually on my medic/HA I run a 3KD , just went up to 6. I used the barrage with ambushers. It’s amazingly good in CQC but I will never use it again, since I respect my fellow planet mans xD

Yes that''s exactly what I was saying... I wasn't excluding ANY of the low skill floor weapons from this category and this game is just FULL of them --EG: hence why nothing shines particuarly well at ANY role over anything else and thus there's no real Counterplay-- and that's why I was saying that the Gunplay in general is repetitive, unrewarding to newbs/casuals, and not suited to the platform it originally shipped on. If it WAS, the game would have still had Warframe & TF2 levels of player numbers and activity back in 2015 right before O.W. came in and crushed just about everyone

Yes I;m aware that NO ONE IN THIS ENTIRE THREAD is even willing to concede this point otherwise they wouldn't still be playing this game. I'm just the messenger delivering to you guys the alternative perspective on why there are so few of YOU, and so many other FPS gamers out in the world who would rather be playing ANYTHING ELSE but this game even though it's got the absolute BEST arcade-like seamless MASSIVE constant 3 way faction open world RTS logistics & vehicle Sim action of ANY Online game still on the market

..shotguns & SMGs just happened to be the most glaring example there is of its TTK+Netcode canceling out the Faction-accentuated Counterplay that could have existed from Day1 of the first CQB patch

Try Pandora, or TR's Nighthawk with extended clip and ambushers, its just silly.

All I see in that video are 2 fights that show the 2 outcomes of a battle with a shotgun. When I'm using the shotgun the later one is happening maybe once every hour(he didn't manage to kill with 6 shots in CQC)...while the quick kill is the much more common result(my average in such a situation is likely around 2-3 shots). If you have an aim like him in that situation then you will have a problem with ANY gun. If you can't stay on the body with a shotgun...how do you want to stay on the head with an other gun?
It's true that a shotgun is less forgiving with bad aim but at least for auto and semi-auto that really ain't a problem cause you usually got 3+ shots(or 6 as you could see in the video) before your enemy will down you.
If you want K/D then a shotgun obviously ain't your toy cause it means getting close...and where one enemy is there are usually more...and CQC with several enemies usually means you gonna die(even if you take out 2 or 3 before) and since you are among enemies the chance to get revived is not that good. So you are usually not going to have 10kill+ streaks...not even the fake ones(where you have to get revived after every other kill).
To use K/D in an environment where you can cheat with heal, revive and repair is anyway questionable. A CQC tank/MAX/infantry just can't get the same K/D as long range stuff...unless it is seriously OP(example Scatmax). Still CQC is what really matters in this game cause you can usually force it(by smart positioning) and there is no capture without. Even with tanks if you want to keep the long range then you need to retreat, retreat and retreat...and your only chance to win like that is if that goes on long enough so the enemies lose their steam(e.g. too many tanks). That's the problem about long range: You always need to keep it long range while the others can push and get on point...and when they are on point you can't get in anymore. Long range is good for K/D-stat-padders but you won't win a war in PS2 with it.

This counts for just about any CQC oriented weapon and isn't unique to shotguns.

No amount of situational awareness can keep you from being unlucky and running into a CQC-oriented SMG, Carbine, AR or LMG, or even a rocket primary HA. With the exception of shotguns being marginally better at CQC I don't really see where the problem here is.

Let's say that what you say is true.
why does no one use shotguns all the time then?
We know that if something is cheesy, people will use it and abundantly. It's one of the reasons why the HA is one of the most used classes in the game. So why oh why if it doubles your KD would practically no one use it? SMG's get about as much usage, but you don't hear anyone talk about how SMG's doubled their KD.

I think it's confirmation bias at work. Especially considering a CQC Carbine with ambushers wouldn't suffer from the larger COF that needs to settle allowing you to engage the enemy before you touch the ground.

Also the video showcases perfectly what I'm talking about: A teeny tiny bit off-target and you can forget about your killshots, while your opponent can just hold the trigger and try to look at you. If Iridar had held a Carbine he would have owned that player with the aim he had, it was the ROF and the punishment for misses that got him killed.

I dareday skillz play a role in using shotguns.

Personally I suck big time in CQC due to a number of factors, so my playstyle is based on being on move, scan the map, predict, pre-aim and open fire at distance in general.

I wonder if this is you: http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/player/Pacster

Because if you check his shotguns, you see that on average he has a lower KD and needs 5.1+ landed per kill. 12+ shots per kill if you look at the "shotgun domain" on that page. So if it is you than you are suffering from confirmation bias.

Checking up on what I think are Iridar's accounts, he does it in half the shots and landed shots.

I also checked HippoCryties and he scores a KD of 0,2 with 587 deaths... It's not as if he hasn't tried. I have double his deaths and auraxed every single LA-based shotgun with it. So it seems like HippoCryties has been lying to us about his "double KD" (unless his average KD is 0,1) and his "honobru I won't use them out of respect" was a tad overstated.

The same could be said for any weapon. "Hey your enemy Carbine might have 30 shots and can kill you in 4, but it often takes about 15 shots for a kill!".

I've won bases with mid-range and long-range weapons. You don't have to get in-your-face when taking a point.