Shotguns and elitists

They don't react well because it's on a console.

On a PC, situational awareness is easy to gain. You run somewhere, you instantly check to the sides and above/below if necessary. On a console you won't be doing that as quickly or fluently, and by the time you are looking forwards to where you expect your enemy to be you are already dead.
So that's what I at least see there in the video: Players looking at their goal, the places they know they will find an enemy. And a large lack of checking if they are being flanked because it takes much more time and makes you more vulnerable rather than protects you in most cases.
Although there are a lot of dummies in that video as well. The engineer that's repairing a turret that doesn't turn around even after he's been hearing shotgun blasts not 10 feet behind him? He should have realized "a shotgun is for CQC, that shotgun is being fired where I expect it to be safe, so there's some enemy there either wielding the shotgun or being shot by a friendly"

I know its on the console

Ive had similar experiences on PC

You should hear me on skype ranting about how useless people can be

Oh no dont look for that cloaker thats killed you 5 times at he same terminal

Sometimes i just sit and watch to see how many hell kill before someone actually acts on it

Wait theres a spawn beacon on the tower? Noones gonna get that?

This drove me insane last night. We lost a Tech plan, an amp station, and got pushed back to the crown because people didnt want to let go of the watchtower that was bound to be lost once it was cut off and even stayed after it was cut off as if we wouldnt lose more bases

Why....

On PC its better but players can be pretty dumb honestly

I rather enjoy using pump-actions, and have most likely received more hate tells from using them than any other weapon. As others here have said, using a shotgun well requires good situational awareness and positioning, and in the case of pump-actions you'd better make sure that first shot is the one that kills, 'cause if you screw it up, nine times out of ten you're dead.

Took the words right outta my mouth! It is precisely those sorts of players that I've found are the most snobbish about shotgun users.

The Jackhammer is the only top level competitive shotgun and it is still situational. In those situations it is god mode though.

It's interesting, checking the Oracle stats of the various starter weapons(Since we technically have a shotgun as a starter weapon now). In nearly every case, shotguns are outscored by stock weapons, even your stock carbine. Even in the Q1(Which measures BR1-25, right?), HA's still score higher with their LMG's then any players do with shotguns.


Now, if you want "Ease of use", SMG's are ya man. Literally point-and-click hipfire from 20m away, dead planetmans. Or, as I farm accuracy on my NS-PDW For muh epeen stats, I still manage a positive K/D while not even trying to kill, but simply trying not to waste as few shots as possible.

I am proud to report that I've managed an average accuracy of 53% for my 10 kills on that gun

Shotguns are mostly fine.

Except full auto ones **** those.

I think the issue with "ease of use" is it is sort of misleading. Your stock weapons are easier to use because whether the target is 1 M or 80M away you can still get a kill. Shotguns are easier to use because when they are in range, you can get away with not having to aim well at all and with the massive damage per mag / DPS you can get away with a lot of misses that would force a carbine/AR user to reload or die before they could put enough damage out.

That is generally the "problem" people perceive with shotguns, they are very low skill ceiling weapons inside their effective range and are a skill equalizer / negator (depending on what side you are on) in CQC. But, they are a part of the game and there for everyone to use

Better players (in my experience) tend to avoid them because they limit your kill potential too much and can leave potential kills in the hand of RNG rather than skill (and the hate probably extends from potentially losing to RNG rather than aiming skill when it happens). Just my theory on it though.

You have to think about it from the perspective of others.

Say you had two basketball teams playing against each other. The first team uses a regulation height / size hoop and spend a season practicing getting the ball through said hoop. The second team gets a hoop that is twice as big and only half the height but they lose the ability to earn 3 point shots.

When it comes time to face off and they end up using the second teams "easier" set up, of course the first team is going to be salty. All that hard work and practice to be the best player they could be to see they are essentially throwing that out the window and dumbing down the difficulty.


But it speaks to player mentality. Basketball is a game (as is PS2) some people play a game for nothing more than some casual entertainment. Some people play games for their competitive nature and to ultimately improve themselves or strive for excellence. Both are valid ways to play.

While your sportsball analogy is somewhat lost on me, it doesn't seem to be entirely correct. Both teams are playing along the same ruleset. If first team is unprepared to the entirety of the ruleset, it's their fault.

Casual vs competitive has nothing to do with shotguns vs automatics either.

Here is the Summary:

Any small arms projectile weapon that can OHK or even THK no matter its effective range is broken

My suggestion is decrease the pellet count of the shotties so they can kill from 3 or 4 shots
or
Greatly decrease their rof so at least it will require some skill to kill

While you are on track to making shotguns great, what you suggest are straight nerfs, which is not what is needed.


What I want is to exchange some damage for RoF, making it a 3-shot kill, with nearly the same TTK, perhaps slightly higher. I think 450 damage is a good number, because I would also want the current stupid headshot penalty removed. That would make it be able to reward a good player with a fast TTK with headshots, but also require accuracy. Buff ADS accuracy overall, reduce hipfire accuracy, buff pellet spreads. Make them reward precision with high damage.


Also, you seriously suggest removing OHK Snipers?

playing with automatics is the casual AND competitive gameplay,the problem is when a low skilled player uses a shotgun in a game like ps2,he can make killstreaks just as high skilled players using auto weapons which is unfair,i'm not saying that shotguns should be completely prohibited but they need a re-balance,at least give a chance to the other opponent to fight imo!80% of the game fights are base caps which is classified as "point defense" battles which is where people usually use CQC weapons to eliminate anyone from reaching the point.thats why NC maxes are the MOST hated creatures in this game,they can simply sit at the door and just press the two mouse buttons to kill anyone which make it near to impossible to reach the point .i mean come on,what will be your reaction when you just can't fight through the point becouse its fortified by OHK/THK weapons?

It will be very misleading to buff pellet spread while nerfing hip accuracy And it doesn't sound logic to buff its ADS CoF imo,shotguns are supposed to kill by hipfiring and not ADSing.decreasing the rof is a great idea to balance shotguns,it will at least give the opponent some breath before he just fall on the floor without even pulling the trigger.as for auto shotties,increase their pellet spread to something like 5 from 3.5 so there will be a REAL trade for such rof

And no,snipers are fine

And no,snipers are fine[/quote]


Nobody ever said Shotguns were supposed to fire from the hip. Encouraging players to ADS, head shot and aim all heightens the skill floor and ceiling. And reducing their TTK in their current state would make them almost completely useless, as you'd be able to get a faster TTK with SMG's in most situations. Also, Auto-shottys already have a 4 pellet spread, not 3.5.

The analogy is pretty much meant to say that Team 1 will do well whether they play by team 1's rule sets or team 2's rule sets. However, team 2 will only do well by playing by their own rule set and will be outmatched by team 1 in team 1's rule set.

The results you would expect to see is team 1 would win 9 times out of 10 playing by team 1's rule set and 5 times out of 10 playing team 2's. However, team 2 will only win 1 time out of 10 playing the first rule set and 5 times out of 10 playing the second rule set.

The reason people get salty is that the second rule set lets objectively worse players be rewarded without putting in the time and effort that the first team does. (That is where competitive vs. casual comes into play - specifically the mentality of players and why they are playing. Not to be confused with casual play on live servers vs. competitive play in leagues which I didn't explain that well, so that is on me)

Like you specifically said : "shotgns can invalide all their years-polished mechanics of headshotting and ADADing and med kit popping and overshield management" I think you meant it as a sort of snide point, but the reality is you pointed out the very reason why people hate shotguns. They remove learned and practiced skills from the equation and people expect to be rewarded for time and effort invested.

Gundem,for god sake!by doing what you are suggesting,you are just turning the shotguns to do the full auto rule,please tell me how is this logic when you can ads with a shotgun??!(assuming there is no slug ammo)

I keep seeing low skill and shotgun in the same line

Why are so few speaking of higher skill players using shotguns for preference?

This demonizing talk is really just salt being poured

I really have no idea how sportsball is played, so I can't fight you on that field.

Be that as it may, doesn't mean it's a right reason.

Awareness, positioning and aiming are all important, but separate skill sets. Shotguns may require less crosshair placement skills, but they put much higher accent on everything else.

Invalidating part of enemy skillset by beating them on the other part of the field.

Yes, techically, if we take a complete scrub, give him a shotgun and tell him to hug the enemy before shooting, most of the time he will die on approach, but sometimes he will get close and get a kill.

But this is not a shotgun exclusive tactic, it can work with any weapon. And in fact, would be much more successful with C4. And you can imagine how much "fun" that scrub would be having by dying 10 times for each kill.

And shotgun complainers fail to understand that letting an enemy this close to oneself is their mistake.

To a lot of people out there, PS2 is aim and click shooter, and they think that whoever's best at that - should win. They don't see the whole game, and that is a mindset of a scrub.

Sorry, but behind all that I'm kinda lost - what we're trying to figure out here? Are shotguns frustrating? OP? Why people complain? I think we figured out the last one.

I guess I consider myself the higher skill here :/

Which frankly, recoil management and crosshair placement isn't that hard to do. After being a shotty main for 2 years, I swapped over to LMG's for TR, as a change of pace.

Low and behold, I'm the most accurate player on Connery, 7th worldwide out of 12000 users.

I mean, I really don't want to toot my own horn, but seriously, it's not hard. At all.

Now, getting into knife range for every single target? That is pretty hard.