Shotguns and elitists

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Gundem, Dec 29, 2015.

  1. cobaltlightning

    So, after a short session today, I have come to a very certain conclusion, after gathering data on both the giving and receiving end of the scatter guns, including the Magscatter, but none of the Vehicular Shotgun weapons.

    They tend to work best as Ambush Weapons.

    Y'all know what an ambush is, right?
    For those that don't, imagine yourself caught in a scenario that you though was an okay sort of thing. Suddenly, in a way you would never have expected, an enemy soldier has push a couple of buttons and sent you (and possibly some of your friends) into the respawning tubes. This is an Ambush. Though commonly executed with mines and C4, a shotgun tends to work, as well, especially as a Light Assault.

    Shotguns are one of the better ambush weapons, because you can take full advantage of the lack of the enemy's awareness to put a pair of buckshots into their torso and leave then down for the count. After all, they've only themselves to blame for not checking for Light Assaults in the attic.

    The downsides? Shotguns, as an ambush weapon, imediately lose their effectiveness if spotted before their trap is sprung, allowing potential prey to slink by, or its wielder fall victim of an unfortunate plasma-to-the-face accident. This does not include slugs, as that changes the weapon entirely different.

    So, next time one of y'all is all sorts of angry because you died to triple-x840igniteityoluyr and his countless little balls, it was actually your fault for letting them kill you in the first place. Don't put yourself in a situation where a Shotgun will ruin your day, but if you do anyway then fix that situation; toss a grenade around that corner, look up every now and then, keep an eye on your flank, that sorta jazz.
  2. Moridin6

    i get salty about them sometimes, my outlet is usually to let everyone in prox chat know THERES A SHOTGUN F- AROUND or something like that
  3. Jubikus

    Luv the Jackhammer fun gun seems OP dont know why its not used more. Then again with all the shotgun hate you would expect them to be used more but you see less of them than most other weapons. Also i would consider NCs max shotguns to be the best AI for maxes from my personal experience with them and TR maxes i find the drawbacks easy to manage and the high alpha damage prevents enemys from actually getting C4 off.
  4. Savadrin

    Well I guess we can't all be perfect.
  5. bLind db

    I don't mean it to be rude, but to point out how common this mentality is for the average player. Finding success with shotguns while simultaneously finding relatively none with other weapons should be indicative of something. Even then, some players may just enjoy the shotgun playstyle more. That's fine; whatever suits you.

    My issue is when brand new players are using the welfare shotguns and virtually ruining any chance they have of actually getting good at the game due to how shotguns can instill awful habits in your gameplay. Getting kills with shotguns is not any harder than getting them with other weapons, but it's obtuse to think that shotguns don't allow for substantially more wiggle room on aim and movement than other weapons. They go a long way to dooming new players to a life of mediocrity at best, and a quick uninstall at worst when they realize they can't do **** when their enemy is outside of 15m.
    • Up x 2
  6. Okjoek

    I like to play the NS shotgun and I did aurax the default one, but that's probably it. I do love shotguns. But they're not as good in all situations like an Assault Rifle/Carbine. IRL if I could only use one gun for the rest of my life it would be a shotgun. Haters are just mad that they can't breach rooms with sniper rifles.
  7. Maljas23


    You are the type of person he was talking about in that video. Skill level has nothing to do with it, but I'm not surprised you'd rather take a stab at him instead of saying something relevant.
    • Up x 3
  8. Inex

    Because for all the awesome aesthetic, it's still a shotgun. You haven't really seen the Jackhammer's true power until you've turned on burst fire for the "one click kill", only to watch somebody walk between the shots to take 0 damage before shooting you in the face.
  9. JohnGalt36

    This seems to be a common theme with you. Most people play games to have fun, not be an MLG FPS player or something. If you have fun by being really good at something, great! Some people don't have the same goals as you, it turns out.
    • Up x 1
  10. Gundem

    I defend shotguns, and guess what?

    Most accurate player with the MSW-R on the entire server of Connery. 12th most accurate player with it in the entire game.

    If his accuracy invalidates it, what does mine do?
    • Up x 2
  11. NyaR

    Hey I've been in Cal-P CS, I've beaten Check 6 Gaming with my own clan in Savage 2 official tourney, and I play arena fps shooters and 1v1 players like Fatal1ty.

    What makes you think you're good enough to call me mediocre? You can't even handle an MMOFPS without crying about weapons that you fully know are part of the game. Adapt or uninstall, noob. You don't get any better by complaining and insulting.
    • Up x 2
  12. Erendil

    In PS2, shotguns get a lot of hate because they are perceived as not requiring as complete of a skillset as higher accuracy, lower DPS weapons (like automatics) do.

    Generally-speaking, shotguns require a high level of skill in reading the terrain, concealed movement, positioning, and situational awareness in order to close the gap on your opponent - either by skillful maneuvering or finding a good ambush location. This is due to the shotguns' biggest weakness - lack of range.

    However, there are many places in the game (like towers) that make closing the gap and ambushing extremely easy (esp if you're LA). And as long as you play in those areas your range disadvantage mostly disappears, so you don't really need to rely on the aforementioned skills in order to get lots of kills. As a result, those skills aren't encouraged to develop beyond a rather basic level (note: this is true for all weapons to varying degrees, not just shotguns).

    However, once you do close the gap and get into CQC the skill floor of shotguns goes way down compared to other weapons. Once you're in range, you don't have to have good aim like other weapons do in order to come out on top. Why?
    • They have a huge DPS- e.g. semi-auto shoguns do a whopping 2925 DPS. Even the highest 143dmg/845RPM automatics only do 2013 DPS, and 143/652 weapons do only 1553 DPS. So shotguns do 1.5x - 2x as much DPS, meaning:
      • You can miss 1 shell completely each second and still have higher DPS than a 143/845 automatic can with 100% hit rate.
      • You can miss 2 out of 4 shells completely and still do as much DPS as a Corvus AR w/ 100% accuracy (1462 dmg vs the Corvus's 1464).
      • You can miss 4 out of 12 pellets from the first 2 shells and still kill faster than any automatic can w/ 100% accuracy (barring headshots).
    • They have big COF and pellet spread - This means RNG plays a big role in where pellets actually land - even if you have excellent aiming skill. If you keep your crosshair on your opponent's head the whole time you may still get only body shots, or miss pellets completely. Likewise, if your aim is completely off the mark, RNG can still frequently reward you with body/headshots.
    So, shotguns are designed to be aiming skill equalizers. Aiming skill in effect gets replaced by RNGs from their COF and pellet spread. They have such a low skill ceiling when it comes to aiming that they don't encourageyou to develop your aiming skills, so you run the risk of never developing them. EDIT: A lot of MLG-type players put a TON of stock in aiming and accuracy/HSR, but shotguns are designed to average out the acc/HSR between players of different aiming skill levels. So this alone is enough for these players to tend to see shotguns as "skilless."

    Lastly, client-side hit detection favors high alpha damage weapons. You can often get off you first shot before even rendering on your opponents screen, which with shotguns gives you a huge advantage if you're the aggressor (or flat out gives you the kill if it's a PA shotgun). Nobody likes getting killed by something that hasn't rendered for them yet and it ends up feeling like a "cheap" kill to the victim.
    • Up x 2
  13. Beerbeerbeer

    Personally, I think the pump-action shotguns are the only ones worth using. I love them all and use them all. I have every PA shotgun unlocked, across all factions.

    The semi-auto shotguns are just meh to me. Yeah, you can spam them like mad and kill people, but there's nothing more satisfying then one-hit killing people with good pellets to the head.

    The argument that a player using a shotgun is wasting their time because they're not "learning" the game is just utter nonsense, whoever said that. Welfare shotguns? Please. It's obvious this player probably got kicked in the teeth by a so-called noob, thinking that he is some elistist. Well, if you're so elite, you shouldn't be in a position to let said noob kick you in the teeth with any weapon.

    In any case, shotguns are feast or famine; there's no middle ground really. And if you want to use shotguns, learn to use the pump-action shotties and have fun! Aim for the head or slightly below the head for maximum pellets to the cranium.
  14. Azawarau

    I feel like the only thing worse than the assumption that shotguns dont require any skill is the assumption that anyone who uses a shotgun is skilless

    These threads drive me mad ._.

    Im sure that if there werent reasonable people posting against this idea that this thread would have many more anti shotgun posts flooding in
  15. Jubikus

    hate it when somebody seems to magically just walk between all the shots but i feel thats mostly luck i kill just fine with the weapon when my outfit was making an altfit named NerfTheNC and all making characters named NerfThe______ i just had to go with the weapon i found the most fun on NC.
  16. MikeyD

    Honestly, and this may sound weird, but i have the most fun as a Nova Slug Gunner to the point that play sessions feel incomplete without at least some sneaky medium range double tapping/3 shotting. :) I mean, im pretty casual(binge player). Of the 3k odd Nova Kills ive got at least 2/3rd of them are using slug-4x Scope Marksmen set up.

    I know they are hopelessly mediocre(for that use) and bullet speed is terrible(i call it the Rainbow gun:) but i actually started to enjoy it when the Bullet drop nerf came in. There is something very satisfying about hitting a shot that required you to lead off scope, watching the tracer arc like its re-entering the atmosphere and ping, hit detected! :), Of course not all my kills are like that , most are in a perch somewhere 3 popping at mid range(2 shot with a HS). In fun popping engies heads whilst his max getting hit by HE, as Erendil stated, Hit detection favours alpha dmg, that works for slugs too, to extent. At a reasonable range you can pop before they realise they are being hit.

    Oh, i haven't played in along time but the last time i checked Dasanfall i had C+ in Acc, and a A++ in HSR, lol. (Nova).
    • Up x 1
  17. Liberty

    This post pretty much hits the nail on the head. The only thing I'll add is the first part about reading terrain / battleflow / positioning is a skill that applies to all weapons but shotguns are much less forgiving when it comes to getting into range.

    Most people hate shotguns because of this :

    Watch this video carefully and watch the aim of the player, his crosshair positioning, his target tracking and see that he actually gets kills. Good players don't hate shotguns because they kill them. They hate them because it dumbs down the playerbase and personal improvement is in large part limited by the level of your opponents.
  18. Gundem

    I would like to point out that the video posted is on PS4, not PC, which has a vastly different aiming dynamic. If any of those players were even half as decent, with the superior aiming capabilities of the PC, you'd have been dead before you got a single shot off.

    Not that you are necessarily wrong(There are some aspects of the aim skill I disagree with), a PS4 vs PC comparison simply isn't as valid.
    • Up x 4
  19. Demigan

    The 'average player' does not use shotguns and uses... LMG's, Carbines, AR's, SMG's, anything but a shotgun. Shotguns are too niche, require too much effort.

    If you find success with shotguns but not other weapons it's indicative of a tactical mind who knows how to compensate his failings in normal combat. However, most people absolutely suck with shotguns, hence the low usage numbers.

    Yeah, it only teaches them situational awareness, traversing terrain+mapping, how to properly aim one shot as opposed to "hold fire and keep it near them" and how to flank an enemy up to a distance of 0m, which is a ton harder than flanking them up to 50m and hosing them with any other weapon.

    It is. Try it.

    they doom players who start with shotgun to awesomness, smart reasoning, tactical insight, outwitting the enemy, learning how to make few shots count over hosing the enemy down.

    Seriously man! l2p!
    • Up x 1
  20. Azawarau

    Im sorry but he got the jump on most of those players and they didnt react well at all

    That video doesnt mean much