Shotguns and elitists

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Gundem, Dec 29, 2015.

  1. Demigan

    I can kill them with a Carbine before they get the first hitmarker, difference is that I can do it from farther ranges than with a shotgun.

    The only real advantage that a shotgun has is their huge damage per magazine. In everything else it requires more skill to use. Even your accuracy needs to be higher or else too much misses and you are out damaged in no time. You can argue that the auto-shotty for instance has an RPM of around 1560 (6 pellets per shot at an RPM of 260), but this only counts if you are in extreme CQC and can actually land all those shots. At a distance of 10 meters you'll already be missing shots, and your incredibly high damage falloff has already begun.
    And to get that damage there, you need to know where your enemies are, where your enemies attention is. Avoid all terrain where you will be at more than 20m distance (2 Sunderer lengths), get in close, pray that the last stretch towards your enemy they don't spot you because you want to be as close as possible before you fire, meaning that if they turn and spot you they can already kill you unless you pull off a headshot from close enough that it will kill them.

    Compare that to the "if I can look around my cover and see someone I can shoot them" mechanics of every non-shotgun weapon, and you should realize that a shotgun is a weapon that forces you out in the open and away from cover, forces you to get away from your teammates and forces you to engage the enemy on their own turf. What will you find on the enemies turf? More enemies, more chance of getting discovered and getting flanked yourself, chance to get attacked from distances where your pistol is better than your shotgun etc.

    Shotguns: Require tons of skill to use, have little advantage when you get there over other weapons, are called cheese because people hate being outplayed by them and don't realize the effort needed to get that weapon in their face.
    • Up x 8
  2. Atis

    They synergies too well with latency abuse etc. When I stay at balcony, hear jumpjet, turn to it's direction and the moment I see LA's shoulders I'm already dead and killinfo shows PAS, all I can think of is that carbine/smg have such huge spread during flight and slower TTK that small lagswitching wouldn't be that effective.
    Shotties are more annoying than OP/cheese/whatever
  3. johnway

    I don't really use shotguns tbh as a close quarter weapon it isn't all that flexible like say an SMG. The power of these weapons is off set by the low rate of fire, distance and the sheer amount of accuracy needed to make them effective.

    Hell, the only time i think they're effective is when there is absolute chaos like in towerstomp but otherwise they're only effective in 1 vs 1 situation. 2 or 3 on one and you're toast. Sure you might get one person, but multiple people closing in on your position? Not likely. But than, its unlikely most people would survive 3 vs 1 situation even if you're a heavy.

    That said, getting an instant shotgun in the face is annoying as its just a middle finger in the face. No subtlity just "**** you" and you're dead. I assume the same reason why people get annoyed why people use launchers to get quick kills.
  4. Inex

    Which is likely 80% of the shotty whining. You can't medkit tank a OHK, so people who pride themselves on 12-0 killstreaks against BR 5s get super salty when their record gets marred by a death.
    • Up x 2
  5. Demigan

    This is a lie.

    Now if you had some example of an LA coming around the corner (which any HA can do as well), then you would have a point. But an LA using his jumpjets has a huge COF. The chance that the pellets go in the direction you want is very very low. When I use shotguns, it's a death sentence to fire your shotgun before you land, unless you are falling from a height on top of your enemy that is.

    If I am an LA that move up on a Balcony, I will only shoot if my enemy is within +/-3m distance. Otherwise shooting your shotgun only alerts them and gives them room to retaliate. In any other situation you always have to wait for your COF to settle, otherwise no amount of accuracy will help you and it's up to the RNG gods if you OHK, hit a few pellets, or even miss every pellet.
  6. Gundem

    VS actually never got the velocity back after that nerf, making VS slugs objectively worse then other factions. It's been reported and apparently considered too insignificant to fix, because going into the API and adding 50 is too hard.
  7. Gundem

    So guys, I keep checking the various steamers, but I can't find a single solitary shotgun araxium. And yet, they complain every time they see one.

    Do they even exist?
    • Up x 2
  8. Liewec123

    the only shotguns that could be considered OP are the pump actions
    the rest are just self induced handicaps, you'd have a similar TTK spraying someone with a carbine or smg,
    but that carbine or smg can also be used outside of the 15m range.
  9. EclecticDreck

    People who are good at planetside infantry play generally dislike shotguns because they do not require skill to get a kill - simple context will do. One does not need excellent headshooting ability at the proper range - snag a bodyshot or two and you'll outdps anynything if you're close enough.

    People who are good at planetside generally do not use shotguns for the same reason - skill doesn't matter so much as context and it is easier to control the skill issue than the contextual one. Having an iWin gun is great if you can guarantee the point blank fight but that iWin gun becomes a liability anywhere else.

    TL;DR - good players dislike shotguns and refuse to use them because they negate the need for skill making it a cheap way to die and a limiting way to play.
  10. Azawarau

    This is entirely untrue ._.

    I think ill quote an earlier post that spelled it out well

    As someone who uses shotgun + blackhand LA exclusively

    I can float around people speedily with drifters and fire at them fairly accurately

    Its one of my go to moves when theres space

    The spread is high but definitely workable in close ranges when you have mobility on your side

    Floating behind people while shooting is actually pretty useful as well

    I dont know what your experiences have been and im 100% on your side in this thread but flying shotguns have been good to me
  11. WR3CK

    For shotgun hater and lovers

    • Up x 1
  12. NyaR

    I've covered this topic in an episode of THE TRUTH. The premise is that the hate for shotguns is a way of dismissing their failures and blaming the victor for the loss. By dismissing shotguns the players have no incentive to improve their own gameplay. They've figured out how to use medium range weapons and they want to use them at close range, when that fails they don't blame themselves.

    This is explained in depth here:

    • Up x 3
  13. GhostAvatar

    I love shotgun noobs, they are like free XP.

    The GOONS love shotguns, I don't see how they we would have problems.

  15. Taemien

    Pretty much this. You don't play the way they want you to, so they call you a noob even if you routinely beat them.

    Used to see this in MW3 (I mean the real MW3 as in MechWarrior 3) all the time. You'd get called a noob if you shot at the legs. And what people started doing because it was the 'honorable' way to play by shooting centermass is started taking armor off the legs to lighten themselves for more equipment and armor elsewhere.

    The tears were great when it took only a single medium laser blast to fell an assault mech.

    Same thing with Tomcats and ESF's. Its the 'honorable' thing to not use them. That way they can run something other than flares. Screw it, let them feel offended. And same thing for shotguns. If someone whines about it, it means you're doing your job, keep at it.
    • Up x 1
  16. bLind db

    Re: Extremely mediocre player with absolutely abysmal aiming ability defends shotguns. Imagine that.
    • Up x 1
  17. omfgweeee

  18. Inex

    It's interesting how you mange to nail why "good" players don't use the shotty (i.e. it's a very situation, and overall mediocre weapon), but then immediately fall back to "cause git gud scrub".

    That's exactly it. Flares don't do anything if your opponent isn't running A2A, so you want to force the meta to pure Nosegun & FS. That way you never need to worry about having the wrong loadout.
  19. SamReye

    I'm pretty sure "good players" use the best tool for the situation.

    If someone gets mad because another player had a better tool for the situation, maybe they should take it as a lesson.

    Shotguns are a great equalizer between skill groups. They require more premeditated attack routes and have a bigger penalty for mistake, but don't always require expert aim (some can, like headshots with a lasersight Baron).

    If these streamers find that they aren't able to kill a shotgun user, maybe they should focus on awareness instead of complaining. It isn't that difficult to look around every once in a while.
    • Up x 1
  20. Pelojian

    chances are there is something you consider cheese, players use that cheese against you, so you should use cheese they don't like against them.

    if they bomb you with air, you should annoy them with AA during their 'honor duels', since SOE/DBG still hasn't seen the light that there should be a class of heavy AA to effectively counter libs/gals.

    if someone uses a shotgun against you use cheese against them, if someone wants to medkit abuse then gang up on them, if someone loves to crouch spam to win a shootout laugh at them as they eat shotgun pellets to the face.
    • Up x 1