[Suggestion] Shield Overcharge Grenades

Discussion in 'Combat Medic' started by Mieh, Apr 4, 2015.

  1. Mieh

    SHIELD OVERCHARGE GRENADES

    Design a grenade that protects allies during a coordinated advance by buffing their max shield capacity for a few seconds. This will encourage active play and give medics another welcome 'proactive' tool in their kit.
    Please use general themes in your discussion - no numbers please!

    There are several problems inherent to this design that have good solutions:
    Problem: A grenade that buffs shields for all allies in range is OP.
    Solution: Give the grenade a maximum number of allies it can buff. Program the grenade to prefer squad members if possible.

    Problem: Players might forget their grenade type and accidentally throw frag grenades right into their waiting team. Heal and revive grenades are less affected by this problem.
    Solution: Find a way to more clearly show our equipped grenade type, especially for forgetful medics. :oops:

    What are some other problems with this feature, and how would you balance it? Would you spend certs on a shield overcharge grenade? Why or why not?
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  2. Problem Officer

    Sounds good, just have a blue variant of the Healing grenade for shields, simple and relatively little work to implement.
  3. Mieh

    Sorry, I wasn't clear at first: The overcharge grenade would buff the maximum capacity of shields, rather than heal them over time.
  4. Problem Officer

    I get it, meant visually have the swirly ring to apply the effect, players would need to stay inside
    and would know if it's stacked with a healing grenade, also the effect would be wasted less often than a 1-time pop.
    This could make medics a great backup for a sniper nest, negating long range headshot ohkos at cost of glow giving away the general location.
  5. Mieh

    Your point brings up a larger issue: An AOE shield buff could break the one-shot-headshot sniping game, which would be a big problem, even if targets were easier to see from far away. There are at least two good ways to balance overcharge grenades to fix that issue:
    • Change the ammo type of sniper rounds to ignore the shield buff from this support grenade
    • Design a shield buff that affects only the body, and not the head
    Though at first I liked the idea of glowy shield buffs (It's a trade-off: less stealth for more defense), infiltrators and other infantry who want to stay hidden but can't cause they're getting "buffed" by their teammates, won't like a glow they can't control. Most players would agree, I'm sure.

    Here's another point: The shield buff should not stack. Multiple grenades should not give more max shield capacity to the same person, but instead just refresh the buff's duration. The shield overcharge support grenade is cool, but it can't be OP if it's to be healthy for the game!

    That name: Shield Overcharge Support grenade... We could call it, the SOS grenade. :eek:

    Keep the design discussion going! What problems and points with the overcharge grenade is this thread missing?
  6. day ofm one


    Well, that's nothing that wouldn't allready exist -> Heavy Assault shield
  7. Mieh

    Good point, but this support grenade would buff allies regardless of their class, including infiltrators, and that's why it would break the headshot game. While that's unhealthy enough for most classes, snipers especially should not be immune to one-shot headshots.

    That brings up another point: How would the overcharge grenade interact with Heavy Assault shields in general? My thought is that it shouldn't at all. The grenade should just buff the shield bar for Heavy Assaults just like every other class, because that's buff-enough.
  8. day ofm one


    The grenades only last a short time and are very limited.
    Also they are supposed to break the headshot game.
  9. Skiptrace

    I actually like the idea of forcing Snipers to be more skilled with their time to take shots, it's a waiting game. Do I chance giving away my position to nuke their Overcharge'd Shield? Or do I wait, and 0HKO them? Make the Overcharged shield a special color for the Shield bar, and call it done.
  10. Mieh

    I don't think anything is supposed to break the headshot game except for Heavy Assault shields and MAX armor. That's my take.
    You're right about the buff lasting only for a short time though. That's the only healthy way to do it.
    I originally suggested the grenade not for that purpose, but for a different one: To give medics a way to end those stalemate moments where allies are afraid to go in. The buff is designed to make allies bolder, and spark off a group charge.
    Combat Medics are supposed to heal so people can fight. I say an ounce of proactive care is worth a pound of cure, and the SOS grenade can serve that role.
  11. day ofm one


    The nade shall increase allies health, that means it also should protect against getting sniped, otherwhise it would be strange.
  12. Mieh

    I can see how it would be a little strange, but protecting against the one-shot headshot would be very unbalanced. A little strangeness is okay, and we know balance is more important.
    Headshots already require a lot of skill to get, and even in fair play, a sniper may only get one or two chances to do it before the enemy is right on top of them. If we let this shield buff nullify the 1-Hit KO, that can take away a full 50% or more of the sniper rifle's power. As I'm sure you'll agree, a 50% nerf just from one ability is no bueno.

    Keep up the conversation. What other concerns are there for the SOS grenade?
  13. RaiseYourBack

    +1 i aggree, that could be a great idea and oferring more tactical options
  14. Mieh

    Let's take another look at this idea. SOS grenades are cool, tactically deep, and would be a wonderful tool in the dev team's pocket. We may not need them now (even though they're awesome!) but if the game develops a problem with stale engagements, this feature would allow medics to kickstart the fight.

    Take a look at the OP and the posts inside (Don't forget to thumbs up the ones you like!) and ask yourself, how would you balance the Shield Overcharge Support Grenade?
  15. Joexer

    A few questions here.

    Would it be like a temporary nanoweave? Wait, but would it stack with nanoweave? Nonetheless, I kinda like the idea.
    Would it decay overtime or just drop off after a set time?
  16. Mieh

    This is a really good question, and one that deserves a professional look at game balance. To be clear, the buff would add temporary HP in the form of shields, so once the HP is burned, the buff is done. However, There's a lot of complicated math behind temporary HP and damage resistance stacking together. I'm hopeful that there's a right answer to this puzzle.

    But let's dream for a minute and leave the math behind: My instinct is that the shield buff should allow infantry to survive one or two additional shots to the body, but zero or only one additional headshot. How many shots exactly should it be? I don't know, but something like four, or anything close to heavy assault shields, sounds like too much.

    For clarity's sake, the buff should drop off entirely after its duration, if it hasn't already been burned by damage.

    Readers, you can share your impressions and questions too. How many body shots do you think the buff from this support grenade should soak up from a normal weapon?
  17. Leivve

    I don't think a limit is needed, only a limit on how much EXP you can get from a grenade; you should reward good placement.

    The actual problem with the grenade is that the Nanite shield does the same thing. I know you want to make it far quicker and able to overcharge, but the problem is the bubble also lets allies take an extra bullet if they are standing in it. Plus it has the benefit of being long lasting, and allies can clearly see it as they run by, instead of having to rely on an ally hopefully being able to make the throw.
    That's actually the reason I roll with the nanite shield gen, because you basically direct the zerg to stand in your circle of happiness. And you can minipulate them to move where you need them because they see the bubble and think "Oh we've moved up to there, I better move up too."

    I don't mean to bash your idea, but I think this should be an add on to the Heal grenade on top of the actual healing or the shield regen at higher ranks. It's niche is just a little TOO niche to be useful.
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