Synopsis By adapting either the VLG turret off the Valkyrie or the existing NC Phoenix Missile launcher into an MBT Turret, NC Players will finally shut up about the Vanguard being inferior benefit from improved factional MBT parity through the addition of a new and interesting mechanic that provides additional tactical flexibility compared to other ESMBTs. Background There is a common and familiar trope amongst NC players that the Vanguard underperforms compared to the Prowler and Magrider. People will make impassioned pleas citing statistics, while its opponents will decry it's "I-Win" Shield. This post is not about that, but rather, creating a new and interesting mechanic that provides more versatility to a faction that does often complain that they lack significant mid to long range AV capability that isn't attached to a MAX. Three Methods, divided by Convenience There are two methods that I can see accomplishing this: The first is a faithful adaption of the existing Phoenix missile mechanic - which would overcome the current primary limitation of the phoenix missile - its user's vulnerability. The stats would be slightly boosted compared to the infantry version. The second is a less dev-intensive route, in my opinion, and involves cloning the VLG launcher (Which is a non-TV, wire-guided missile) off the Valkyrie, with minimal or slight modifications to the assets (Missile projectile, turret model, etc.) The third, and most radical approach, involves implementing the Phoenix missile as an activated ability deployed by the driver - effectively a tube launched missile with impressive stats. This would, however, have the same limitation as the infantry version - making the launcher vulnerable, and therefore wouldn't be as viable. It'd be much more impressive, but less viable, and I mention it mostly to shoot it down in the tube Reddit Chaingun Limitations Any attempt or suggestion to create a harasser version of this turret, or to create a Raven-MAX style weapon, will be treated as instantly heretical. To the actual weapon itself, given the time it takes for a missile to travel, this creates a window in which no damage can be inflicted by the launching turret - time that other turrets, such as boomboxes or halberds, would be using to reload and fire again. This means that past a certain range, weapons like the Halberd would be preferable for damage, giving this proposed weapon turret a defiantly middle ranged feeling, with longer range attacks being limited to probing or chipping attacks. Faster Missile, worse turning There is a concern that the mechanic itself would enable indirect strikes on targets out of the tanks LOS - this is a legitimate concern, which could be countered by making the MBT version faster than the infantry missile, with similar or worse turning. Conclusion Thank you for your time, and please feel free to comment on this suggestion. In solidarity with our NC Friends, please rise for the anthem of the new conglomerate
Putting a Phoenix on the Vanguard would just make it worse, not better. Even buffing it a bit afterwards, really wouldn't help the Vanguard be any less terrible. Would probably have the opposite affect, actually.
I love the idea that the Vanguard is terrible, I get that the shield isn't as good as it was but even as a TR main the only MBT I've enjoyed using is the Van. I get that the Prowler is on paper the highest DPS but locked down we can't avoid jack while the Van can use cover to supplement repairs and shielding. As a tanker mobility is a critical component imo. It also always ticked me off that Harasser took 4 Prowler AP shots to kill but only 3 Lightning AP. Not sure on the current shots to kill but I think it's finally the same number of shots at least. But then I'd wager the Vanguard takes fewer to compensate for the fact that it doesn't fir as fast.
An interesting concept overall, I'm actually not opposed to the concept of no LOS, yes it would be painful as all hell but so long as the turning circle of the weapon was balanced they should be dodgeable. It could be OP against lockdown though. Which I suppose ruins it. Hence I specify turning circle, if it's a guided rocket I'd like to keep the speed down enough to give defenders a chance to shoot it down. I had an idea for Mortars a while back which might make for a less OP non-LOS weapon. Next to worthless up close but valuable for clearing enemies in cover. Alas, that would likely require a whole new mechanic to be developed as I don't see how existing targeting methods could aim a mortar.
Well it's more like the Vanguard is terrible compared to the other vehicles driving around with it. Worst in too many categories, I think. The Prowler has the highest DPS when not locked down, if I recall correctly. Locking down is icing on the cake. Also isn't unanchoring instant? The Prowler has the better TTK though, as it's two volleys compared to three shots. Vanguard has the slowest reload of all the tanks. Also in your next post you're describing the current Phoenix perfectly; Terrible turning circle and slow projectile, perfect for easily dodging and shooting down
I really like the intend, we should have more brainstorms like this on the forums. The Phoenix missile idea wouldnt work unless its a short ranged missile. The Phoenix has a 300m limitation as any sudden movement/teleport across more than 300m will cause a loadingscreen. I dont think it would be a problem to let the Vanguard hit non-LOS targets, it wouldbe a good addition to the vanilla chassis. I myself also proposed a wire-guided missile like the AV turret, only with a low guidance so that bullet drop still affects it. Say the missile is agile enough to reduce the bullet drop by 50% if you aim above the shell, or turn the shell to the left or right with 50% of the shell drop speed by aiming left or right of the shell. I think that allowing the Vanguard to swap ammo types to wire-guided or similar changes each with their own advantages and disadvantages would fit the Vanguard amd the NC as a whole well. They are supposed to be the rebel faction that bolt weapons and ammo everywhere and railguns would be ideal for shooting alternative ammo types.
Having lots of weaker shots is great if you're hitting with them but Harassers have this annoying habit of trying not to get killed. If you miss one shot you need to reload and you're talking about as long as a lightning anyway. A lightning that can with Racer equipped keep close enough to a harasser to hunt it. I'm a Stealth / Mobility tanker, Alpha damage is WAY more important than DPS imo. Smash and Dash so to speak. Exactly, I think it should be powerful enough to be rewarding when you get a hit but not manoeuvrable/fast enough to guarantee you'll always get the hit. Against deployed sunderers it'll be great, they either take the time to keep shooting the shots (keeping them occupied) or you keep pounding away at the sundee. Having been on the receiving end of it before launchers were turned into potato guns I can say that it was a devil to fight against, just because you see it coming doesn't mean you can avoid it. Terrain and enemy fields of fire can leave you vulnerable to such a weapon. The fact that it requires ambush/coordination/luck to make the hit is why I think it should be a powerful hitter.
Yeah, but if you miss once with a lightning you'd do zero damage. The greater damage of both shells from a prowler would be more beneficial, especially given the very small delay between the two shots. Eh. Currently there is almost no excuse for ever being hit by a Phoenix outside of deployed sunndies. If the Vanny version could some how suck less, *cough* pre-[GU10/24 NC15 Phoenix Nerf] *cough cough*, that'd be a slightly different story. (Still very easy to avoid and/or negate entirely.) Having fired it many times at many targets, if ya' can see it, it can be avoided. Drive under/towards it, wait for it to get close then drive perpendicular to it, drive away from it, stay 250-300 meters away, shoot it... It ought to hit hard when it does ever hit to become a viable AV secondary weapon, in my opinion.
Putting this type of weapon will kill the vanguards disadvantages completely as it would be able to shoot from safety and finish off any tank Because the vanguard has the shield it can protect itself well enough as it is Making this possible will only hurt every tactic that makes the vanie killable and change the prowler into low dmg per shot artillery which wont be able to compete The magrider wont be able to hide Therefor it will need to buff the vulcan to extremely high dps and the vs anti tank abilities to be higher This balance would kill tank combat as we know it I cannot agree to this idea as the mbt combat is balanced as it is If anything like this happens im quitting the game for sure
You realise we're talking about a top gun that would leave that gun impotent for the duration of the flight time and reload time too. You're talking one shot every 10-15 seconds at any real range. We also discussed making it slow and with limited turning ability. I'm thinking something that a Mag could outpace if it boosted away and most armour could avoid or shoot down if they saw it coming. You'd be trading high finishing power for low short-range firepower. To help with that you could even balance it where the warhead doesn't activate right away so within a given range (maybe 15-25m) it does only a kinetic type impact damage at vastly underpowered levels
Go play with the Phoenix outside a spawn room, while ensuring a beacon is above your own head, in an active battle. If you don't die within a minute, you got lucky. If you get a kill of a not-stationary & oblivious target like that: Well done. Like dear lord. You really want that Vulcan Upgrade, just for anything.
More precisely if the NC were getting an indirect fire finishing top gun I'd expect some unique weapons for TR and VS not a buff to existing ones. Some sort of Mortar mechanic for a TR top gun would be nice, not the same accuracy but traded for a higher rate of fire, inability to aim too far down making it useless in close ranges. VS could get some sort of plasma mortar equivalent. or something unique maybe a drone that launches vertically then the gunner can target a laser strike from there? The drone would be killable and dies after the laser is fired, a similar rate of fire to the TR Mortar but weaker hitting than the TR or NC options.
