Server Smash and TR

Early weapon models.
Early camo patterns.
Early helmet designs.
Early Minigun model.
Minigun.

Striker.
Prowler.
Multiple weapon balances.
Vulcan.
Marauder.
Several infantry weapons, along with NC and VS weapons in the same general patches early on, and later on individual changes to TR.
Banshee.
Hellfire pods, along the air-nerfs, leaving the Hellfire pods the weakest and most inaccurate, leaving the TR with a "take longer to get the damage out" situation while NC and VS can dump their munitions faster and get out.

Most people do not complain about most of these because many are not so overt. Most people, for instance, just quietly ditched the Banshee and left it be, mostly because Hellfire pods are still decent against infantry, so nose-guns are not that big a problem.

Oh yeah, almost forgot: Fractures.

To add insult to injury you are crying about the ZOE, the cause of the ZOEpocalypse and the reason a huge load of players quit, and on top of that, you are announcing the Orion, SVA and BJ as nerfs long before they are even touched, you don't even know how drastically.

You need to stop nailing yourself to that cross of yours, as a VS player you have the least right of anyone to go all melodramatic about anything the VS has had nerfed.

No, they really dont make a difference in large battles. In a 96+ vs 96+ battle, when the defending faction decides to pull a MAX crash, it doesnt matter if they are VS/TR/NC. It doesnt matter if you attack with 30+ Vanguards, Prowlers or Magriders if the enemy is more coordinated and/or has the bigger numbers.

The issue you seem to forget is that:
AS A FACTION, THE VS IS THE ONE THAT HAS HAD ITS ABILITIES, EQUIPMENT, OR GENERAL WEAPON PERFORMANCE NERFED THE MOST AND TO THE MOST AGGRESSIVE EXTENT. It was the mentality that,"Since they're aliens, they're better!" that will now render the VS horrible in all weapon categories. I don't really care, since:
1. I only use HA, and I hope "balance" (in the form of chickens**t nerfs) doesn't ruin that.
2. I consider myself as a somewhat skilled player.
3. The game has been REALLY fun for me... just the way everybody seems to have fun, it makes me feel good
However, when I see a Terran player, or ANY player sit and make a thread explaining something that makes no sense, I get mad. It's definitely because I'm biased, but it's also because of something I personally believe in when it comes to video games:
EVERYONE deserves a buff, one way or another. And that goes especially for a game where every faction got nerfed to a steaming pile of rotten lasagna. I'm sorry if I sounded dumb, man. Faction bias got the best of me.

I always find it funny that VS keep using this line of reasoning:

VS got nerfed the most, so VS deserve buffs the most. PAY NO HEED TO THE FACT THAT VS HAS BEEN THE DOMINANT FACTION ACROSS SERVERS FOR THE LAST YEAR OR MORE. What's worse is, you have not made a good case for the supposed universal nerfs to VS and how this is in excess to the nerfs to TR and NC.

I also find if amusing you say you have been having so much fun - good for you btw - playing only VS HA and considering yourself a somewhat skilled players. Yes, somewhat is definitley it because you K/D is 'only' 2.something, not the average 3-4.something VS HA's have by the time they reach BR 100. Ofc, you got some ways to go to get there so you might have that by the time you get there, I won't judge on that.

And you get mad when a TR or whatever explain something that "makes no sense" - I'm guessing you mean the OP's point about TR's lack of use in competitive play? What about that makes no sense?

Faction bias really did get to you, yes. Pretty much everyone, myself included is biased in some way but you got it bad. Real bad. "Everyone" does not deserve a buff. Buffs or nerfs are not some kind of reward of punishment doled out for good or bad bahaviour, they are fixes, or attempted fixes, to the overall balance in an attempt to keep the factions in a health place where everyone is equally able. Given the state of PS2, I ca only conclude that no, we still don't have any kind of overall balance. And while VS do not deserve any buffs right now as far as I'm concerned - because I don't think they need it for anything - I don't think the things that make VS so dominant can be foxed by changing the game itself. It's an issue with playerbase by now. Don't think DBG will be able to change that.

Again, to recap how ridiculous this thread is... here's the actual data on the win percentages for each faction (using ps2alerts sources):

VS: 2/7, 28.6%
NC: 4/9, 44.4%
TR: 3/3, 100%

The very premise of this thread, that the TR aren't selected for SS because they are UP, is demonstrably false because the TR have been featured in SS matches.

Not only that, but the data shows that the TR is the faction with the highest percentage of victories.

So if Server Smash performance is an indication of OP/UPness, then it's pretty clear that the VS need buffs while the TR need nerfs. Of course that's a statement that is by itself suspect... I would think that the real reason factions win SS matches is because they end up in the right base at the right time with the right number of people.

Anyone who actually believes in any kind of way that Zoe was nerfed without just cause is immediately invalidating anything they say. ZOE ruined the game for a lot of people and is partially because of how the game is now. A lot of good people quit and could care less to come back because of that stupid ********. VS were fine before even with their spider magriders crawling on bases/mountains/etc and all other dumb toys. Seriously, VS players have had it easy ever since the game came out so of course you are going to get nerfed. Like I said, what do you think is going to happen when you have 3-4 tanks up on a mountain shooting down at infantry who can't do anything back? Or tanks jumping over shielded gates into bases or ending up inside biolabs.

Seriously, of all the factions in this game VS has been/is the most abused by players. So yes, you're going to be nerfed into the ground for playing dirty. There was even a thread up on reddit recently and surprise, nobody likes to fight the VS. So there you go, you are playing on a faction that the other factions actually hate having to play against because its not fun, just frustrating.

If I'm leading a squad and I had to pick between fighting the TR at a biofarm with them having the advantage or fight VS at a different base with a 1:1 pop, I would rather fight the TR because at least they're fun to play against. If the only 'good' fights are against VS (due to late-night server populations), I just log off and play Payday 2 with friends or something else.

Do TR need some kind of buffs? Sure. Striker and Fracture. As for any VS arguments or victimization, its a load of silly BS and just...I don't even want to talk about it.

How?

I think the only things it happens to prove is that:
1) OP has a very bad memory
and
2) He obviously has some sort of agenda that isn't exactly founded on reality.

Tho i agree TR are plenty competitive and only think they are slightly weaker than the other factions the data you have is well just not a large sample size sure the percentage is 100% but why the hell is it in less than half as many battles? I would also like to know the numbers from different competitive scene like farmers league where the battle is smaller and weapons would be a larger factor?

As a sniper fighting VS is actually prefered as from my experience the NC players in general have better counter snipers but i usually pick my fights based on the base and not the faction which is probibly why my faction killing is basically even.

--currently at

VS KILLS
12,057

NC KILLS
12,033

ZOE was downright OP. I will definitely not deny that, but what about everything else? Is it true that everything the VS had was OP, or was it true that most of everything was crap, but a few things were pretty fine? Slowly, the VS has been stripped of ANY ES traits; think bullet drop, ZOE (the mobility it gives is crap now, it is LITERALLY the most useless thing in the game now, alongside the PPA), and now the mobility given to our LMGs. Bias is something I factor here; I AM THE BIASED ONE, not anyone else. Sure, some people believe their faction is the least powerful, but I'll tell you what my bias makes me see:

The New Conglomerate is a faction with the most trait-abiding arsenal in the game. When it comes to their weapon classes, everything is balanced in a great way, but their lore does not permit them to have a truly professional army.

The Terran Republic is a faction with the best lore, best music, and equipment that is meh at best. (Unprofessional talk here). Do they need buffs? Sure. The Fracture needs one, Lockdown needs one, TRAP needs one, and basically, they need to have better weapon models, because other factions have high fire rates, something the TR should have. But overall, they are balanced with some needs for buffs.

The Vanu Sovereignty is a faction that (Mass bias incoming!!!) was once great, still is, but is now the most bland, boring, and fish-loving faction in the present. Sure, they have spandex... that's it. THAT IS IT. What outstanding weapons do we have right now? NOTHING. The NC have the Cyclone, Raven, ACX, the TR have the chaingun, the Vulcan, best pistols, and the VS? Well, we have the Orion (something I don't even use), and that is being lost later, along with the SVA. After the incoming nerfs, our faction will be the nobody in the game; our pistol arsenal will generally suck, our AR arsenal will generally suck, our machine gun arsenal will be on par with the TR, our ESHAW will still not achieve additional killing potential (I don't give a damn about it's "niche;" the Lasher is a WEAPON, and therefore should be able to kill enemies effectively, something it sucks at), our sniper rifles are just like the other factions, and our MAX will be second best, which is were the Fracture buff comes in. What then?

I'm done. Done with all the s**t my faction has had to go through, and the same can be said about what the other factions had to go through. But I honestly believe it was never balance that made the VS the crappy faction it will be in the future, it was jealousy. Jealousy that resulted from the fact that they used hover tanks, futuristic stuff, plasma, all that alien-type crap. Under the guise of "balance," the nerfs inflicted upon my faction slowly made it boring and uninteresting. All I see when I play as VS is potential kills, and people wearing purple jumpsuits and using futuristic frozen fish as weapons. When I play NC, I see a rowdy bunch of Lego warriors not being able to tell good guy from bad (like the Orks from 40K), and when I play TR, I generally see a glorified warzone.

To sum up this monster of text, I believe the VS is the worst faction. Not in terms of weapons, but just the way it's treated. It is a fact that VS players are more skilled than other players, and this skill is ultimately going to lead to more nerfs, and more nerfs, AND more nerfs, but what will happen? The weapon that's just better than all the others will be used, and that will be nerfed, too. Nerfs and the idea of making something worse has pretty much KILLED any sort of uniqueness that was once enjoyed in the game. The VS will soon be a faction that has nothing of actual note, save for Infiltrator booty, and who knows? That could be taken from us, too.

By the way, that was a funny picture. Really liked it. And I'm not sure what the "lose" button means...
Can one lose in this game?

I don't feel like I'm in any sort of position to talk. I talk from a viewpoint of passion, not professionalism, and that's where my flaw comes in. What do you think is the best way for this game to be balanced? Because it seems like I don't have the answer.

Saw this thread and it peaked my interest. I main TR on live and as part of Emerald's 'Illuminati' I can tell you that there are a couple of factors that go into faction select. The first match the I Force Commanded, Emerald vs Connery on Indar we chose TR because of the base layout we could make use of TR's strength(BiS AI ground vehicle weapons and TR medic balling). The open bases of Indar and Esamir make TR viable options. However, the LMG selection isn't as strong and it offers middle of the road ESF and carbines. Also, most of the outfits that we lean on to do the heavy lifting main VS and NC on live so their comfort is taken into account. This is the same reason why Briggs selects TR so often in their matches. I think looking back over all the smashes, TR are like 11-2 and NC have been used in every match.

To be honest, you're right a ton of points. I really do like the Vanu and wish they were more alien and they were definitely stripped of a lot of ES traits. You're right. I think it's less a problem with you/your faction and more about just the game in general. One of the coolest things that stood out for me in PS1 with the VS was:

1. They could switch types of ammo on the fly since they used batteries
2. Their tanks hovered/hovered strafed
3. Their tanks could go over water. Albeit slower, but it still added a strong amount of asymmetrical gameplay without directed associating to its weapon properties.
4. Their ESAV for Infantry, the Lancer, was the only point-and-shoot AV gun. TR and the Striker, NC had the Phoenix.

With PS2, there are no ammunition types which guns can be equipped with outside of a terminal and there are no bodies of water which the VS can use for that asymmetrical warfare. What else does that really leave the VS with which people could complain about? Not much. I've played VS characters in PS2 and I can immediately tell going from NC to VS the difference. The main difference is that it feels like it takes a lot more actual hits than it would take on NC. With NC guns, once someone gets good with a particular gun, everything dies pretty easily. With VS, there does feel like a -tiny- bit of a longer delay, or higher TTK, than with NC guns. But I think the make offsetting point is that NC guns are kind of bad anywhere beyond medium-ranged fights. I can't tell you the amount if times I've 'tried' to engage VS at a distance and get outplayed.

I don't know. It just feels, for some reason, that VS are extremely difficult to fight. Like, it gets so bad to the point that even the TR and NC joined up together a few days ago on Emerald to double-team the VS. Thats right. TR and NC players actually controlled themselves and avoided killing each other, in the throngs of battle, to specifically go after VS.

I haven no idea what can be done. DBG could try to give the VS as a faction blatant blanket-nerfs to make them useless so that players are far more eager to play other factions, then buff them back up once they are on a more tolerable level, but that's A) extremely unfair and draconian and B) more likely to make the majority of the VS players quit for good.

But beyond something like that or blanked buffs to NC and TR to make the VS less desirable from a mechanical stand-point they can't do anything. The players have shifted around, VS was and is the most user-friendly faction so they got the majority of team-oriented players, and those players are there now, so they get more becaue they win more. It's a vicious circle and it won't be broken. Far as I'm concerned PS2 is ******. I'm only playing because it's still very fun to play with my team-mates and fight NC. Fighting VS is only something I do to push the overall objective, because that's what's fun to me. Engaging with VS is only an annoying means to an end.