[Suggestion] Serious no-fly zones

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Serialkillerwhale, Aug 23, 2014.

  1. Serialkillerwhale

    Our current AA is utter ****e.

    The ESF we have has the performance of a modern-day attack chopper, yet AA is still WWII-equivalent garbage that just gets walked over.

    How about something like the MIM-104 Patriot
    [IMG]
    Or S-300 Grumble
    [IMG]

    Pound those ESFs good.
    • Up x 2
  2. Matt879


    Ever tried pulling a burster max or a skyguard? Stop complaining, 1 flakmax can make a 500m radius zone a no-fly zone.
    • Up x 17
  3. Serialkillerwhale

    For the two seconds it takes for an ESF to gib them.
    • Up x 6
  4. Borsty

    Unless there's a hill nearby. Then an ESF just peaks out, kills 2-3, flies behind it again. Repairs. Does it again. Million videos of people doing exactly that on youtube. Only way to stop that is like 3 AA MAX and a couple guys with lock-ons. So in short: 5+ people to stop one ESF.
    • Up x 4
  5. Serialkillerwhale

    And one AA max costs what? 450. And the ESF?

    350.

    Skyguard? 350.

    Skyguards are absolutely helpless against everything that isn't air, and nearly helpless against any aircraft too.
    • Up x 6
  6. Goretzu

    A tiny random chance of a critical/fatal fault if hit with small arms would help with that. :D


    Basically a good pilot should never die to AA currently, if they do it is almost always pilot error or the occasional plain bad luck.
    • Up x 4
  7. Colt556

    In various threads I've given ideas on how to change a wide variety of vehicle-related gameplay. Two changes I think would help is nerfing the hell out of infantry-based AA like lock-ons and the like, although they don't seem that useful now anyways so maybe just leave. Basically I want infantry to be pretty helpless against air because they should be. However I want to buff the ever living **** out of the skyguard. A single skyguard should tear through ANYTHING in the sky, esf, the new valkyrie, a lib, even a galaxy. One skyguard should be able to shred any aircraft in seconds.

    Reason I'd like that change is because I feel it allows for more combined arms gameplay. A no fly zone is set up because the enemy spawned a couple skyguards and insta-kill anything you send in. As such you're forced to send in a ground team to neutralize those skyguards. With infantry-based AA being worthless, once the skyguards are cleared out your own air can move in and support ground troops. Air can't operate without ground support taking out the AA, and ground benefits heavily by having air support. THAT is true combined arms gameplay as both infantry and air need to work together, currently aircraft just do whatever they want and have no problems doing it.

    The reason I want infantry-based AA to be worthless is because it's spammable and mobile. A skyguard is a fairly hard target, you can actually plan out an attack on it since it wont really move that much. You know it's in this general area and thus you can go in and take it out. Infantry can be literally anywhere and can move literally anywhere. Beyond that infantry based AA is free, so literally every single player has the potential of pulling out AA. Because of those two factors I feel it should be basically worthless unless spammed in a concentrated fashion.
    • Up x 2
  8. Demigan

    Not this again. One AA unit does not make a no-fly zone. You can avoid it and even combat it as an ESF/Liberator/galaxy.
    • Up x 3
  9. Aldaris

    Nor does one ESF completely destroy anything but the smallest of fights in the middle of no where.
    • Up x 7
  10. Haquim

    "Modern-day attack chopper"?
    I'm not exactly a military guy, but I think if a modern chopper shows up in the middle of a fight most people will just crap themselves and everything (including tanks) will evaporate within a few minutes. A chopper propably can kill a tank with a single missile from miles away when he has a radar lock. Ofc guys with RPG can easily take it down - if they hit it. ESFs also die easily to those.

    I assume you DON'T want to give ESFs more firepower, so you should drop that idea - since you have to buff them equally if you want to field something like that against them.
    • Up x 2
  11. KenDelta

    Just had a blast getting owned by Burster maxes and Skyguards, my ESF kept getting insta-gibbed the moment I crossed the small mount between the bases , literally insta-gibbed.

    AA game is fine.
    • Up x 1
  12. Demigan

    But where Flak gives up all firepower against anything but air units, the ESF can equip a nosecannon good against infantry and aircraft, and have access to various anti-tank rockets to boot. ESF might not 'completely destroy anything' but they can seriously hamper anyone's ability to fight when there's not a single AA unit around. And look how far and wide you can fly before people even pull AA.
  13. Aldaris

    And a single AA unit can hamper an ESFs ability to fight as well. As for far and wide, you can't. When significant AA is around you have very limited engagement windows. Annoying, but again not detrimental to a fight. I'm failing to see what the problem is. I fly occasionally, I've Skyguarded a decent amount. I don't exactly have the highest amount of time played in both roles, but my experience tells me everything works as it should.

    AA is fine.
    • Up x 1
  14. Kunavi

    8 out of 10 ESFs shrug off dual LockDown Bursters and gracefully glide away after a full farm cycle. No comp armour. The MAX is in danger, especially while LockDown is active, including from the ESF they are targeting as well - With top level Flak.

    SkyGuard is a pain to keep accurate at any reasonable AA distance and is too vulnerable - Tunnel vision inducing too. It's also way too specialized and needs support, which the ESF isn't, and doesn't.

    The more you go up the food chain(Libs, then Gals) the worse things get. A non armoured Lib can soak a Tower AA turret + LockDown dual Burster fired full auto at it, at 40M and glide away after TBing the turret to add injury to insult.

    On the side, Fire Suppression and NAR are way over the top. I'm considering running this even on my Sundy instead of the soon to be N3rf3d Deploy Shield(Because KD autism denies LAs with C4 any reasonable option other than solo C4 run to the enemy Sundy and SOE will likely listen). Point is, they definitely make Air immune in most cases.

    I also want to mention that Stealth makes things worse. So you pulled an MBT? Sweet... *TB InstaGib by 1/3 Lib*

    As a new pilot;

    Air units I pull seem to be made out of used diapers as they explode in under 2" of 1 Burster firing at them from 280-300M away, random Phoenix ace shots and various other crap including rifles... And not just when I hover like an idiot. Let's not even talk what happens if you attempt to fight other ESF, it feels like they got GodMode on.

    When I use Stealth EVERYONE targets me for some reason too.

    I suspect this(My experiences as a pilot or against pilots) has partly to do with all this hit Detect/Lag crap and generally speaking bad Engine/Code.

    Honourable Mention : Striker will generate more TKing, weapon locking and Self-Injury including lowering your accuracy by hitting walls, allies and rocks, than firing 200 MCG rounds blind folded at a busy Tower's Spawn Room(At the double shield doors that lead to the main floor, where 213908238 allies will be gathered). I have had it for 1 year and really tried using it back when I bought it with SC and now, go see how I have been doing with it. Coyote style weapon? Thanks for A)More CopyPasta as TR ES crap B)A more failed version of the Hyena and C) Probably again won't have any AI value nor the utility of either the Lancer or the Phoenix. Points for trying though, SOE. -.- Now it's a failed Annihilator, then it will be a failed Hyena. And the Annihilator will be a better "Striker". Wut?

    Edit : Forgot to mention how the Striker exposes you more than Lock-Down actually.\
    Edit 2 : Why am I trying to reason with a company of Devs and the majority of ForumSide supporters they have, who in their opinion find C4 and Shotties perfectly OK and in need of buff? :S Nothing to read here, carry on.
  15. Sixstring

    LOL you can always tell when these people have never flown before,heck they probably barely even used tanks before they grew a wild hair and bought a skyguard. Anyone who can lead flak will totally screw the other factions airgame,if AA were any more powerful aircraft would basically disintegrate on sight and that's not fair for the people trying to fly. Yeah people who have been flying for a long time know when to walk away and when to run and they're not just going to hover and let themselves explode. It's the same thing with any semi-experienced pilot everything becomes a reflex and even then sometimes you do get shot down. It's always seemed funny too me that the people with the easy jobs complain twice as much as everyone else and they'ed soil themselves if they had to cut the 9 foot high greener,Anti-Aircraft infested grass on the other side of the fence. I guess that's life.
  16. FactionTraitsFTW

    ESFs really arent the problem. The AA we have currently can deal with them quite well. It are those freakin ridiculously OP broken instagib all the things liberators that we need better defences against.
  17. r4zor

    Yes, flying does require skill. But that doesn't mean that those who have mastered it should be able to farm hundreds of footsoldiers (see youtube) who are mostly helpless against air. There are many problems connected with this that have far-reaching repercussions.

    Many bases are surrounded by cliffs, hills, trees (Hossin especially) that make it easy for aircraft to pop in and out without taking much damage and without being seen before its too late. The time it takes for Infantry AA lock-on (~5 seconds) is far too long and with said cover for aircraft the infantry has only few chance to defend themself. Why? Because infantry wont directly notice incoming aircraft. They also wont always be able to hold the lock (trees, antennas etc). Furthermore it takes 3 hits with G2A Lock-ons in order to kill ONE ESF. If less it will simply fly behind said cover again and magically auto-repair itself (especially with NAR and the totally OTT fire suppression health potion).
    The problem is that AI weapons on aircraft usually kill you in 1-2 seconds (especially Banshee).
    Heck, the tree's on Hossin were designed to discourage air-to-ground farming, they turned out to be the complete opposite.

    Further problems are the frustration connected to being helpless against air. Especially new players have no viable option to defend themselves against air! Only one Burster on the MAX is unlocked, which means it would take them AGES to kill even a mosquito that is completely oblivious and hovers without moving too much. Skyguard is 1000 certs, Nemesis is 1000 certs and they are not even THAT effective. Far less effective than an ESF (in terms of kill-potential -> hence the "deterrence" ribbon, cause killing is so much less likely on the ground2air side than on the air2ground side!). And 1000 certs is a lot for new players (around a week of playtime).

    And really, the viability of G2A options is a problem. Since it barely rewards you with kills (and therefore fewer XP) it is also less used, again increasing the potential for ESFs.

    Let's not even get started on talking about Liberators or Galgunships. How many G2A missiles do they take, or better said, how many G2A missiles do they simply shrug off?
    • Up x 3
  18. Joay

    You ignore a lot of stuff to make your scenario work, which is from a solo ESF pilot ideally lonewolfing. Infantry is mobile, but also very slow and limited to the ground, not to mention that it ahs to worry about every single thing on the ground. Same for skyguard that can be out maneuvered, especially with hills around (Indar, Amerish, Hossin, leaving only Esamir where it has better chances) While the ESF flys around, the skyguard needs to worry about anyone with some C4 come by witha flash or harasser and slap him in the face. Also MBT's. Nerfing the infa is the last thing that should happen. Every heard of Liberator or Galaxys?
  19. ShoeFlip

    My only problem with the G2A game is my lockon rockets flying sideways into trees/rocks just because the target ESF had a tiny bit of forward momentum. Whereas, if the rocket propelled forward at least like 50-100 meters before turning to chase the ESF I would have a lot better hit ratio. Other than this minor problem, I wreck air all day long on various G2A guns. Phalanx turrets net me the most air kills, I even shoo off liberators before they get into the hex (if I was lucky enough to see them and have a decent line of sight). Next biggest killer for me would be the Ranger on a sunderer, I go on regular killing sprees with this if ESF pilots are dumb enough to keep coming back. And just yesterday I had my first lockon killing spree in Hossin, even the ESFs that were popping flares still didn't get away quick enough (they got greedy).

    I guess what I'm trying to say, there are enough options for AA that nothing needs to be changed. If you don't own a big enough gun, look for an unmanned phalanx turret or vehicle gun, OR, you know, just shoot at it with your gun because you still do damage and can sometimes scare them off. I've claimed ESF kills from ~200 meters away with my little infantry gun, so it really doesn't hurt to shoot at aircraft regardless of what you have.
    • Up x 1
  20. r4zor

    But that only works for ESFs. Libs and Gals are immune to infantry rifles. And as has been said, G2A lockons often crash into trees, hills, buildings, the ground infront of you or troops infront of you depending on aircraft momentum, making them mostly MISS their targets. It also requires at least 3 people to have a lock in order to really KILL that aircraft, while it only takes one ESF to farm infantry - especially those that have no means of defending themselves against air (new players or non-HA infantry).