[Suggestion] Series of (infantry) suggestions

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Auzor, Oct 4, 2014.

  1. Auzor

    Warning: long text ahead.

    Infiltrator:

    -The full auto scout rifle is underpowered compared to either SMG options, or semi-auto/bolt-action weaponry.
    To buff the weapon:
    o we increase the muzzle velocity to 600 m/s (similar to certain assault rifles and LMG's)
    o we extend the max damage range to 15m (up from 15)
    o we extend the min damage range to 85m (up from 65)
    o we buff the accuracy moving while aiming to 0.25 (from 0.3; 0.25 is the same as the semi-auto scout rifle, and actually makes the scout rifle more accurate than a SMG)
    o we reduce the long reload time to 2.65s (from 3s)
    The above largely maintains a DPS deficit for the scout rifle, when compared to SMG's, assault rifles, or carbines, and maintains the 24 bullet magazine, which is arguably the biggest downfall; but it should much more represent an effective mid-range weapon than an SMG.

    More faction specific auto-scout rifle weapons are welcome; for example:
    TR:
    TORQ-9, reduced to 35 bullets/magazine and 775 rpm; min damage to 15m; max damage dropoff as per Torq-9@55m.

    NC: Carbine GD-23 married to a Trap-rifle is the basis;
    540 RPM, min damage 184 @15m; 143 @100m
    24 round magazine

    VS:
    Plasma-magic: Low RoF (450 RPM?); 'Low' velocity, no bulletdrop;
    the plasma bolts increase in damage with distance.
    Say, min 143@10m, max 250@100m.

    (This is also why the NC weapon has such a drop-off: to ensure this weapon is above it at range; this vanu weapon crosses accros quite a few 'damage tiers': 143-167-200-250; at range it will easily out-DPS LMG's or anything really; but low velocity and the accuracy limitation of the scout rifle should keep it in check at those ranges too. At range, an infiltrator could use a bolt-action anyway. It shall be called "campers nightmare") An option IMO would be to have it deal increasing splash damage at range (long-range-lasher), but I'm not sure code exists for varying splash damage.

    Implant-wise: the implant hiding from detection by motion sensors only works outside half the sensors range.
    Motion sensors also detect small vehicles, such as cloaked flashes.

    Stealthed vehicles detection range is reduced by half against motion sensors.

    The infiltrator gets a new ability: hacking vehicles/maxes.
    Stop rejoicing!
    Unlike hacking a terminal, hacking a vehicle doesn't 'flip' the vehicle. It shall have the following effects:
    for 20 seconds:
    -vehicle cannot be repaired, including auto-repair, friendly sunderer
    -scopes of the vehicle don't work (no thermal for you)
    -vehicle speed halved, acceleration and turning speed decreased by 25%. (halved turn speed is ridiculously slow)
    -RoF and reload speed halved
    -active vehicle abilities don't work (smoke, fire suppression)
    -no squad spawn
    -for sunderers: no spawning, equipment terminal disabled. Perhaps the best option is to have hacking it result in the sunderer no longer being deployed; but I'd prefer this not to be the case: in a zerg, then anonther sunderer simply deploys right away.
    -a hacked vehicles 'proximity radar' and vehicle stealth don't work while hacked; neither does 'sunderer shield' etc

    The above also works vs maxes. a hacked max that is killed cannot be resurrected.


    Before tankers start whining: your vehicle doesn't take damage from this, and it means an infiltrator stood next to your vehicle for a few seconds.

    An alternative: hacking a vehicle ejects the occupants (but still doesn't flip the vehicle). That wouldn't deter sunderers however.
    Hacking a vehicle would give (IMO):
    100 xp (same as a kill), +50 for any driver inside, +25 per extra crewmen/gunner.

    If a vehicle is destroyed while hacked, the infiltrator gets assist xp.

    Infiltrator equipment:

    -the infiltrator gets access to either the flash or the smoke grenade. Normally I'd favor smoke, but when a couple engineers bring an underbarrel, places get oversmoked already. Sooo... flash grenade?
    -EMP grenade immediately disables any active heavy 'overshields'.
    -gravity vortex grenade: long duration, slows movement speed of (enemy?) infantry in the area. Gradually dissipates. Light assault also gets this. (this grenade would be an AoE effect; it wouldn't 'attach' its effect to specific players.)

    new tools:
    -AV radar: longer range than sensor beacon, detects vehicles. (both ground and air?) stealthed vehicles are detected at half the sensors range.
    -the lightbulb:
    fired of like the recon dart, this deploys a lightbulb, causing infiltrators in the area to glow up, it also glows enemies in smoke for example. -> anti-infiltrator and anti-smoke tool. This would have a small area of effect of course.
    -the sapper: deployed like the sensor beacon, this one drains enemy shields over time. Heavy 'overshields' drain twice as fast when active in the area. If it drains an enemy shields fully over 10 seconds, it needs to drain 50 shield/second, but this can be divided in small steps. Deploy right next to the wall behind which enemy's have fortified for example. Or next to the wall behind which you are fortifying, to annoy enemies gathering outside.
    Two cert lines: one increases the shield drain rate, up to double (so 5s drains full shields), the other increases the area. Both increase the duration and the number carried. Like the sensor beacon, you can only have one active at a time. (Question: should the effect stack? Should it 'disable' the medics placed shield recharge? Should the effect have 'damage dropoff?))
    Suppose it starts with 10m range. That is quite an area; place it by the wall of a small outpost, and you cover part of the second floor too. Increase range to 20m, and the entire building is covered.
    Increase the drain rate, deploy, and toss a grenade. By the time the grenade goes off, shields are about down.

    Why does the infiltrator need some more tools, which do different things:
    suppose you bring two medics: great, two AoE heals, two people that can rezz. Possibly one AoE heal, one AoE shield.
    two engineers: two turrets, two max-healers. (ammo supply doesn't stack of course)
    two infiltrators.. well, most bases one dart-spammer is enough. One max level sensor beacon has a range of 50m. Intelligently deployed, this covers your base.
    The lightbulb is hell for enemy infiltrators camping on a mountain side: start lighting em up, creating small areas where cloaking doesn't work. The historical equivalent are illumination rounds for night-time fights.
    the sapper means two infiltrators are usefull: one with darts/beacon, another with the sapper, and if the enemy runs a lot of cloakers, a third lighting up the base like a christmas tree.

    In order to make this work, it is crucial the above 'tools' remain infiltrator only; imagine the outrage if 'lightbulbs' become available on crossbows, or for other classes, even with less effectiveness...
    • Up x 1
  2. Auzor

    The medic:

    Should lose access to C4. Yes it is extremely useful, yes it means the medic can blow up a vehicle, or a max, but is that his role? Even as a combat medic?

    -The medic gets access to a medic station instead: a small deployable where allies can resupply medical kits and restoration kits. The medical station is a deployable; it costs nanites (25). The medical station gives a small AoE health and shield heal, but below that of the medic's abilities.

    -Nanite corruption:
    I'm not sure if this should be an ability (probably not), a grenade or a deployable: disables enemy resurrections in a small radius/makes them take twice as long/makes rezzed enemies rezz with half the normal health/makes them rezz up with the effect of a concussion grenade/..
    During stale mates, you often have a few dudes peeking around cover, killing each other, getting rezzed, next dude peaks, kill each other, both sides ress, etc.
    This is a stale mate breaker. (much like the infiltrator hacking a sundy spawn point)

    The engineer:

    In planetside 2, there are no destroyable walls/doors etc, so the engineer could lose C4 IMO. However, crying etc, so probably not going to happen. IMO: remove C4, make maxes trigger AV mines.
    The engineer gets an explosives station: here allies can resupply mines, grenades, & C4.
    I'm aware this makes grenade spam an option, but when nanites get an overhaul, grenade spammers will run out of resources, sooo.

    The engineer gets some nerfs I'm afraid:
    -repair tool stops working for 0.5-1s after a vehicle is hit by a tank shell, or a max AV, or an infantry AV weapon. 'tank shell' includes the liberators Dalton.
    This makes repairing 'whilst under fire' far more difficult.

    Engineer extra deployable: long awaited walls:
    -vehicle wall: blocks passage to enemy vehicles, blocks enemy vehicle weaponry. (and AV weaponry of own side too!)
    -low cover: a rectangular box of cover. When crouched, provides cover from headshots.Note that if an enemy has high ground, this may no longer be the case!.
    . Infantry can jump and move over them (inclined edges)

    Both types can take damage from AV weapons and can be repaired.
    The rectangular box can be 'stood' on ; note that this can enable 'minecraft' style construction by a team of engineers to create their own stairway. There must therefore be a maximum amount of boxes an engineer can deploy. Of course, said boxes can be destroyed, so an enterprising light assault sticking two C4's in the middle of the 'stairs' can make things interesting...

    Vehicles therefore should not be able to drive over these (they crush the block?). Otherwise, vehicles can go to far too many places, by putting blocks over the current obstacles.
  3. Auzor

    New weaponry:
    Mid range weaponry.
    At the moment, nearly all the weapons are in a damage tier designed around killing a standard infantryman. An exception is the Trap, the Terran ES sniper rifle. (which is functionally a scout rifle..)
    We need more such weapons.

    Take the terran 'baseline' weapon: 143dmg/750 rpm model.
    7 bullets to kill. Inside 10 m. Outside: 8 bullets.
    Next damage tier: 125 damage bullets. 8 bullets, or 9.

    For the TR, we make a new damage model:
    139 dmg max, to 121, far away in the distance, 750 rpm, slightly lower recoil, lower first shot recoil multiplier.
    This is the TR 'medium range' weapon.
    At short range, the extra bullet necessary to drop a 1000 hp target kills the TTK (get it? get it?).
    However, beyond 10m, it still only needs 8 bullets to kill. (eventually, it does need 9; balance)
    But, the controllability would make this an excellent mid-range weapon. On such a weapon, HVA might actually make a lot of sense to extend the '8 bullet-kill' range.

    At 139 damage, this weapon also drops a max-nanoweave target in 9 shots btw. So that is the same as a 143 dmg weapon. But, 143 has some more range where it only needs 9 shots against such a target.
    Perhaps 750 rpm is too high; 698 or 652 are of course alternatives.

    VS gets a similar weapon, in between 143 and 167 bullet damage.

    NC get one with bullet damage in between 167 & 200. (185 bullet damage?)

    So, trade away some more CQC ability, in return for controllability at mid-range (especially the first shot recoil multiplier IMO, and high-ish bullet velocity. How could these weapons work: low recoil multiplier, lower recoil than the 'standard damage' tier, so sending a stream of bullets down range is easy. That is why the recoil tolerance must be high. Gradually the weapon goes 'of course'. This is necessary to avoid 'infinite burst'. Another option is that these weapons would be 'burst' weapons in the first place!

    Perhaps the 'pro' players don't need any of that, as they can control recoil already quite effectively. But this would be some extra options, faction specific (of course), easy-ish to use, but with a downside (die in CQC)


    Besides that, room for new weapons in the existing damage tiers, or tweaks (all IMO):
    Both TR and VS have 'low dps' LMG's:
    T16 Rhino, T32 Bull.
    Polaris, Ursa.
    Nc have really only one: the EM1.
    IMO: NC could (should) get a 167 dmg 'low dps' weapon. A NC 'Ursa': 550 RPM, squad support weapon. Another option is another 200 dmg weapon with slightly lower RoF than the Gauss Saw.

    The 'top' NC CQC LMG, the Anchor, has higher muzzle velocity than the EM6. The EM6 is the only NC LMG with a burst mode. IMO those velocities should at least be switched. Another option is that the Gaus Saw S becomes the 'burst capable' weapon.
    Also: the starting accuracy (before CoF bloom) of NC LMG's, and of that damage tier, is simply an advantage. 0.03, vs 0.1 for the '143 damage' LMG's.
    I think some of the 143 weapons should receive an accuracy buff, say a starting accuracy of 0.05 for the Pulsar & Polaris, the Bull & the Carv-S. Those are weapons more or less meant as 'support' weapons, trading some RoF for controllability etc, but at single-fire ranges, the only real option is a 167 dmg LMG for all factions, except NC which can bring a 200 dmg also.
    Reversely, should the 'CQC' LMG, the Anchor, have the same or better single fire accuracy as the Gauss saw S? Give it 0.05 or 0.06 for example when standing still?

    Moving on, to 'enhance' 143 dmg model at range (which btw has a theoretical advantage over 167 dmg models at range), IMO the first shot recoil multiplier of the following weapons should be looked at (and perhaps slightly reduced):
    T16 and T32 Bull
    The Polaris and perhaps most of all, the Pulsar @ 2.45. That thing in theory competes with the SVA-88.
    Another option is to consider giving some of these access to 'advanced forward grip', to reduce the horizontal effect of that first kick.
    You may notice none of those are 0.75 movement LMG's: the last thing those need is good controllability beyond the 0.5 LMG's IMO.

    As a starter, most of the stats that make up the overall 'feel' of a weapon are not shown in game.
    This is pretty terrible TBH.
    For example: as a new player, I might not be too used to 'recoil compensation'. So, I pick a weapon with access to a compensator. But, look at NC: Anchor and GD-22-S don't have access to a compensator, but: their default vertical recoil is lower than that of the LMG's that can take a compensator: EM6 & Gauss Saw S. The disadvantage of a non-compensated EM6 is greater than the advantage of a compensated EM6.
  4. Ixidron


    What's the point of the station? I can heal them as medic, so it's pointless to place a station where they can expend their resources and time to get something I can do in less than a second.

    As for the AOE, we have shield stations and our AOE heal, which again makes the medic station pointless, because we can do that for free, no resource cost.

    You just want medics to lose the C4 but you couldn't think about any justification, so you made this and expected us to believe it's an improvement, it isn't.

    If the developers want medics to lose the C4 they better add something useful to that slot, like improved res grenades merged with healing grenades or some kind of stimulant hypos/grenades/deployables that decrease recoil, increase speed, accuracy, damage resistance, and the speed of actions (like overloading a generator).
  5. Auzor

    What is the point of medkits? I can spawn as medic and do that for free.
    Tbh, the most pointless upgrades for medic are medkits, as long as you dont pick the shield deployable.
    Yes I do think that, besides arguably heavy and light assault, there should be some 'heavy competition' for the tool slot. That alone may be enough: to make c4 a difficult choice. (without raising the nanite cost)
    I also think it may be interesting to have these deployables grant items with a small discount (5nanites/item eg)

    C4 for all is boring tbh.
  6. LodeTria

    The sapper should be a light assault tool since they have nothing, the infiltrator has one of the best abilities/Tools in the game: the motion spotter. He doesn't need more.
  7. Auzor

    The LA has a... JET PACK.
    And an infiltrator would have to trade the motion spotter for the 'sapper'.
    LA: jet pack, no tools.
    If LA suddenly gets the 'sapper' as an option, then everyone would take it.
    And he can place it easily on rooftops and the like where no other class can easily destroy it.

    Honestly, the first thing I would consider is granting LA acess to the battle rifle.
  8. Auzor

    The LA has a... JET PACK.
    And an infiltrator would have to trade the motion spotter for the 'sapper'.
    LA: jet pack, no tools.
    If LA suddenly gets the 'sapper' as an option, then everyone would take it, since it is the only option.
    And he can place it easily on rooftops and the like where no other class can easily destroy it.

    Honestly, the first thing I would consider is granting LA acess to the battle rifle.

    Here are some random thoughts for LA specific tools:
    A rope-cable, to allow other classes to climb up.
    Rappel? Cables high-low, allowing quick movements from a high point to a lower. (including horizontal movement hi-low, without taking fall damage)
    (maxes wont be able to climb!)
    a ledge-launcher: launch at a wall, create your own private balcony. (next to a window for example)
    Access to sticky grenades
    An option to bring two grenade types
    Booster: immediately regrants full jet pack energy (Or half, upgrading grants more charge and more energy)
    Adrenaline injection: think max charge ability: big run speed bonus, short duration. Might also grant faster equip time, zoom in and reload speed.
    • Up x 1
  9. FactionTraitsFTW

    LOL
    People have been looking for an LA tool for 2 years and havent really come up with anything useful and you just post a whole list of ideas that all sound awesome.
  10. Ixidron


    Now that you say that, maybe LAs should lose C4 in exchange for something like that, and everyone in the server will be happy without the C4 fairies flying around.
  11. Auzor


    I'm not too sure the C4 fairies themselves would be so thrilled.
    C4-fairies do serve as a balancing factor IMHO against short-range vehicle zergs, and against maxes.
    Also: how strange would it be for an assault class not to be able to bring C4; but a medic still could?

    The '********' aspect of C4 is the light assault jumping from a flier to make a delivery.

    All that said, there are some more options for LA:
    give access to AV grenade (hello grenade bandolier)
    give LA a 'mini-rocket-launcher' (the current striker comes to mind), or some AV options effective against harassers & sundy's, but not against mbt's; (aka: an anti-material rifle)
    give a LA an actual spawn beacon for all (so not just 'squad spawn'); this could be shared with infiltrator potentially

    a 'derepair' tool: does the reverse of a repair tool; each tick grants the user some nanites: you are taking enemy resources. Problem: exploit for enemy engineer repairs, you derepair.

    Shield entrance: create a small infantry only 'door' through say biolab shields. Short duration. Difficult to implement probably.

    Also: hiddin in the 'infilltrator' text is the gravity vortex grenade which LA also gets; AoE slow effect that lasts for a while.