Semi-Auto Sniper Rifles and you

Discussion in 'Infiltrator' started by Mustarde, Jul 11, 2013.

  1. Mustarde

    Duplicate of a blog post that I wanted to share here.

    Also, for reference:
    -99SV: Default TR SASR. 6-12x optics
    -KSR-35: Close range TR SASR variant. 1x-4x optics

    The subject of SASR's have been coming up more and more lately, on these threads and in conversations I've had with other infiltrators. A long time ago, I went through the brutal task of getting the auraxium medal for the SOAS-20, HSR-1, 99SV and KSR-35. Yes, the SOAS-20 pre-buff. It was a very difficult time, and yet, I became a better player for learning how to use all the weapons in our arsenal.

    Let me cut to the chase and share my thoughts on SASR's and why they will remain a niche weapon group.

    1. You make yourself more vulnerable to get a kill.

    With a bolt action, you can decloak - fire one shot - cloak and move. I can slip headshots on targets in the middle of a hot mess and then reposition. With a SASR, even if you are accurate - you must decloak - scope up - ping, ping (and sometimes 3 more pings!) - scope down and cloak. The time that you are scoped up and trying to kill a target simply is longer than with a BASR. And you can't really move around while ADS, or your accuracy will suffer greatly. I forced myself to go several sessions with just the 99SV and KSR-35 recently and kept getting killed from the side or behind while scoped. Let me be clear, this doesn't mean I'm complaining or saying we need a change. It's just a reality of the weapon class - you will ALWAYS be more vulnerable than when using other sniper rifles or smg.

    2. You are not stealth. Even with a suppressor.

    Firing multiple non-lethal shots down range have several effects on your ability to infiltrate - mainly that you lose control over your stealth. The sound of a SASR firing repeatedly (even suppressed) will draw attention rapidly. I will say that I like the sound of the suppressed KSR-35 (sounds like a SR-7), but the 99SV suppressed is horrid (sounds like the M77-B suppressed). Furthermore, when using a SASR, you give targets a chance to take cover, heal and hunt you down. Yes, you will kill people, but SOME of them will escape, and know exactly where you came from.

    3. Scope sway on a weapon that requires multiple accurate shots

    I believe that scope sway is a mechanic designed to balance OHK BASR's - and i'm fine with that. But having sway on SASR's that require numerous rounds to connect is ludicrous. I know SOE threw sway on all 6x scope weapons... but I do believe that if you want infiltrators to use these weapons and actually have superior performance at long range, scope sway needs to go for SASR's. As it stands now, you need to get two consecutive headshots in a single breath to reliably and safely kill a target. Which means a stationary target. Which means WHY NOT USE A BOLT ACTION??? Don't even get me started on scope sway with the KSR-35... a 2x semi auto rifle that sways...

    With all of these points above (I'm sure there are others that I simply left out), you now have a class of weapons that put you at medium range (i.e. lethal distance of other classes), unstealthed, vulnerable to flanking and with scope wobble. These downsides will keep SASR's as a niche weapon class. Bolt actions do a superior job in the aspects that matter - stealth, short vulnerablility and single shot kills. They also work better at range (I've slapped a 10x scope on the 99SV and tried to use it at 200m. It's hilarious. It's bad.)

    "So Mustarde, what is this niche you speak of? All these negatives you mention... what about the positive???"

    I'm glad you asked! SASR's are great for open field combat. When you are with a squad, platoon or just zerging it with friendly forces. They are highly effective when you are engaging infantry that are spawning from a position and running to an objective over open ground. You can drop moving targets more consistently with the SASR. If someone is oblivious and standing still, two quick taps to the head will dispatch them and it is not very hard to do - thus you can still serve some function that the BASR fills well. If you have allies by your side, the vulnerability is not as severe - although you WILL get countersniped by infiltrators using BASR's quite handily. Like I said, you can't really strafe while scoped without sacrificing accuracy.

    I recommend pulling out a SASR for those open combat situations where you can't find stationary targets. When you are with a squad and have backup. Or if you are attempting to complete the infiltrator challenge and get auraxium for all the sniper rifles :) The rest of the time, I find BASR's or the SOAS-20/SMG superior.

    Also, I favor the 99SV over the KSR-35 by a large margin. All the downsides I mentioned compound when you use short range scopes and get up close. The only time I did well with the KSR-35 was in biolabs, hiding up in the trees with a suppressor. Even then, I'd have gotten 20 more kills with a BASR.

    I'm working on some video footage of these rifles - It's taking some time so be patient but I'll post it once I'm happy with what I've recorded.

    Please - don't misinterpret this as a rant, whine or call for a buff. This is an analysis, based on my own extensive experience with the weapons. I don't want SOE to change anything here. I am tired of people telling me to pull out a SASR instead of complaining about BASR's and nanoweave - because the difference between those two classes of weapons is HUGE and the idiots giving me that advice have no idea what they are really suggesting. Also, I know that some of you do really well with SASRs. I actually had a nice 7-8 KDR going with the 99SV the other night. You can make it work. That doesn't change the facts that I shared above. Just find the right circumstances to use these guns and you'll do alright.

    That's all for now.

    • Up x 7
  2. Bhudda V1

    mustarde i have a question, the semi auto sniper's in 2 head shots and no nano weave is there a range it will require a third? and does nanoweave have as much impact on semi auto's as basr? and if so what impact

    thx for your reply.
  3. Mythicrose12

    Interesting write up. Once I've finished up the Nyx scout rifle araxium medal, I plan on swapping to the Phantom. From your write up, sounds like it will be about the same to kill someone but with added scope sway.
  4. Scan

    Once you get accustomed to using a high powered scope at any range, I found the use of the SASR become obsolete.

    The only thing it has going for it, is the quicker reload times, but there's just nothing like being able to line up the shot, and getting the headshot in. In that regard, I can drop targets just as quickly as my teammates, and only need one shot to do it.

    The niche you speak of, I think is best left to other classes.

    In other words: If I want to support my team as "one of the guys" in open combat, I'd be far more effective playing Combat Medic than I'd ever be playing an Infiltrator using a Semi-auto rifle.

    The only advantage I can think of with this playing style is Recon darts.

    Infiltrators aren't meant to engage the enemy like the other classes. We are supposed to use our cloaking to get to their flanks and rear, and that's where a well used Bolt-action shines harder then any semi-auto ever will.
  5. Thelarian

    Semi auto snipers will always kill with 2 headshots at any range even with rank 5 nanoweave. They can also kill with 1 head shot and 1 body shot if the enemy doesn't use nano weave or if it's an infiltrator with rank 1 nano weave. So picking a samr might be viable if you encounter a lot of guys with rank 5 nano weave since you'll need 2 headshots anyway.

    The way I see it SOE plans to allow cycling basr while scoped in response to more people using rank 5 nano weave, instead of balancing nano weave\making other suit options viable\buffing basr range. This change along with nano weave will just turn basr into a slow firing long range battle rifle, which is yet other proof of how poorly they understand the class.
  6. Aimeryan

    Not true for VS semi-autos: min damage is 260 (over 200m). Hence, it requires 2 headshots and a bodyshot to kill any target with nanoweave (once the damage dropoff falls by enough, which will vary depending on NW rank).
  7. RockPlanetSide2

    Again, the main issue is that the Semi-Autos are only effective at the range where you can still be killed by other full-auto classes just by spraying you. The "Medium Range" is too far in Planetside2 (as far as all the other weapons being able to just shoot back and you and kill you) so weapons like the Semi-Autos just fall into "I use this because others don't and I want to be different" file.

    I like them, but I'm 100% right in my statement. If it was 2 head 3 body on anything it would be cool, but its not, and getting two head shots on moving targets with 550 bullet velocity is only relating to maybe .01% of the PS2 population skill wise.
  8. Ripshaft

    Your subjective analysis is rather poor when you're not very adept with the weapon. The most basic concept integral to using any semi auto is that they can accomplish the exact same thing as bolt actions in 99% of situations, that is - killing stationary targets. The barrel of the gun will reset to the exact position you fired the first shot from, without needing to hold your breath. You will easily be able to get 2 shots in the head of your target before they can react, which is a kill under most circumstances (I don't recall ever not killing someone in 2 hits, though I haven't used my spectre that much since I got my nxy, which is better in pretty much all ways except scope availability - also fun fact, the nyx has one of the coolest silenced sounds of any gun ever). Maybe nanoweave can stop it, but as you say, getting a single shot in -even on a moving target- is kind of easy, so this is largely less of a problem than you would face with bolt actions.

    Also theres really no reason to put a silencer on your gun -especially not a semi auto sniper rifle-, unless you are operating within the enemy's forces. I love to do this, so I do use a silencer on my spectre most of the time, but if you don't, you're much better off without it. The greatest advantage that I see with semi auto snipers or the semi auto scouts is that the enemy assumes you're sniping, when you may be 20 feet from them, this makes for some ludicrously hilarious idiot farming.

    Basically I think semi autos are actually better than bolt actions in almost every way in the current state of the game, it's just a matter of perception and willingness to learn how to use the weapons, or more accurately accepting that you don't realize how to use the weapon intrinsicly... which is really really hard for most people. That said, I definately still use my bolt action in alot of sniping scenarios, just because it's highly satisfying to get the OHKs rather than the 2 hit kills which are almost instantaneous... perception again, but less dumb I'd hope.
  9. RockPlanetSide2

    Uh 100% sure that does not al (as in I was in game and just shot something with out breath 20 times with the spectre)... the scope sway moves the crosshairs constantly when shooting with-out breath.


    I think that an Army of 2 style may also make the Semi-Autos much better. 2 Snipers shooting the same targets from max-medium range is rather scary with semi-autos.
  10. Mustarde

    What? My analysis has very little to do with skill, and everything to do with the design of the weapons. You increase the time spent scoped and not moving. You decrease your stealth. You have to land many shots with a weapon that will sway after 4 seconds. These are factual statements and don't factor in skill. Your first sentence confuses me.

    Bolt actions kill stationary targets better, from longer range, more reliably (except when nanoweave) and with more stealth/less vulnerability to the user. I am baffled that you think the SASR's are more effective at killing stationary targets. I stated that they were still CAPABLE of killing stationary targets with two taps to the head. But by no means are they on-par with a BASR. Not even close.

    Just read that to yourself. Now read it again.

    Maybe SASR's are better than BASR's for players who struggle with precision aiming. After reading what you wrote a few times, I think you are trying to make this comparison based on killing stationary targets. You are not considering that many dedicated infiltrators can take a bolt action and headshot moving targets from 100m consistently. Certainly not 100% of the time, and if the target jukes a lot it gets tough, but BASR's are way more than just for killing stationary targets.

    My OBJECTIVE points listed in the OP describe inherent downsides to using any of the semi-auto weapons. I couldn't disagree more with your statement that SASR's are better than BASRs in almost every way. It's the opposite - SASR's have a narrow utility that when used properly, yield good results. But you become much more limited in how you can play. Another poster put it well - you end up falling into a role that is better served by other classes.

    And I do agree that you need to learn how to use these weapons and that is the point I tried making at the end. They are a different animal, you can't play infiltrator the way you can with a BASR or SMG. I don't know where you get off telling me I intrinsically don't know how to use these weapons though. I'm one of the few players who has actually dedicated entire weeks to playing with each sniper rifle just so I would know how to use them. Just... wow. Congrats, you're one of the first people on these boards that I've bothered to break down and quote the post and refute each paragraph.
    • Up x 3
  11. LT_Latency

    Not everyone fights from stealth. Sometimes you can just fight from a safe range where you gun will kill them but they won't kill you.

    The Semis lets you miss and still not be totally screwed and kill going for body shots if you don't have time to dead shot.

    I think they can be more effective at medium range if you don't have support.

    If you shooting at a non moving target they are almost the same at any range. If you land a head shot and wait the correct time and fire again you will score a second head shot before most players do anything about it
  12. hansgrosse

    Let me first state that I'm not a supah-1337 sniping god, so take my opinions for what they're worth here. That said...

    I normally opt for a SASR when infiltrating because they seem to be the most reliable sniper weapons with the fewest variables to take into consideration. They still work better than scout rifles at true sniping ranges, they do very well at mid ranges, and they're at least functional up close. I also like having as many shots as I need to put a target down without having to worry about a lengthy rechambering animation should that first shot not kill the target. Most if not all of the negatives that have been associated with the SASR in this thread can be overcome with planning, positioning, and situational awareness.

    Also of note is that nanoweave is largely a non-issue with these rifles. I expect and plan for a kill to take 3 shots with a SASR. I am rarely disappointed, and often pleasantly surprised.
  13. Rigsta

    Sorry to pull stats on you, but unless you have another character I don't think 150-odd warden kills and 9 bolt driver kills is enough to really get a feel for the differences between the two weapon classes.

    My take on SASRs:

    I've been re-visiting them recently and they started to feel good until I took a realistic look at what other classes have available for the kind of ranges I was operating at.

    They're ok. Their scope sway, especially for 4x and below, needs to go. Their CoF bloom is hideous, forcing you to wait til the gun settles down from the recoil before firing another shot. Seriously - go to VR, rapid-fire at a target 20m away and count your hits. And that's what really nails their coffin shut as far as I'm concerned - I have no use for a gun that doesn't shoot where I point it.

    The sei-auto scout rifles fill their role better, imo. No sway with 4x and lower optics, and far less CoF bloom. And that's about as much praise as the Nyx is ever likely to get from me.

    BASRs with the upcoming straight-pull bolt attachment (allowing chambering the next round without de-scoping) will outclass SASRs in every way, imo.
  14. RockPlanetSide2

    Meh BASRs and SASRs are not supposed to compete, the SASRs issue is the other guns and the inclusion of the SMGs. Again tho they are not to be used in the same battle situations... you don't use the Semi Auto because you can't aim or whatever, there are situations like people running towards you in the open where the semi-auto just craps on any BASR out right (even if you are a great shot, you will be just as good with the SASR and drop 3 people per reload in under 5 seconds)... you just drop fools in that case over and over.

    It's not paper rock scissors any more. SOE just keeps adding items faster than they are balancing existing material because the corporate wigs want more Station Purchases, so basically nothing is going to get balanced.

    Even tho the Full Auto Scout Rifles are better than the SASRs they are still just horrible versions of what Combat Medics already get to use (as in they are basically the exact same guns with only 24 bullets... I like how people still praise them).
  15. K2k4

    I think the SASR's role is more intended for infiltrators who will be with groups of other people, where your position is immediately going to be compromised by the other players in your vicintity. Effectively this makes you better at fighting alongside a squad. While you could argue that you can do this with BASR's, which you certainly can, running alongside other people the 'loss of stealth' will not matter so much, and if you're still finding a good sniping position and just soloing it out you're not really doing anything different from what you would do if you were solo.
  16. RockPlanetSide2

    I played some Army of Two style with a buddy today with both SASRs (spectres) it was rather impressive. Just called out the targets and just dropped guys in seconds then just ran off into the shadows. First guy fires then the second then the first guy has shot again - dead target even if you miss the head, no way to recover in like .5 seconds. And you always have somebody looking behind you if the situation calls for it. I was impressed by this at least.

    And there were plenty of times where we just lit up groups of guys and any that were not killed just ran in random directions. Could not do that with the BASRs.
  17. AnuErebus

    The semi-autos are better in field battles line is starting to make me cringe every time it gets brought up. When I get into a field battle, where the lines are shifting, people are running about and the fight gets that sort of chaos only field battles create I want a gun that can stay useful and reliable on the move and I want a gun able to reliably take down targets who expose themselves to run between pieces of cover. I do not find the semi-auto snipers to be those guns.

    The semi-auto snipers have too big of a kick, too slow of a recoil recovery, too low of a damage output (Mainly with accurate fire which waits for recoil to recover) and too slow of a bullet velocity to make them guns I really want to use to try to hit moving people. They also offer no bonus in killing speed over bolt-actions. It takes me the same amount of time to land two accurate rounds from a bolt action as it does to land the 4-5 or even 6 rounds it takes to kill someone with a semi-auto. And then bolt-actions have the possible 1 hit headshot as a bonus. So if I'm going to field kills why wouldn't I take the short range BASR or the quickest firing long range BASR? The only semi-auto I feel is remotely useful is the scout rifle, because it at least doesn't have as bad of recoil as the snipers.

    I'm tired of people saying to pull out a SASR as well because I just laugh at them. If people are close enough for me to use an SMG I will use an SMG, beyond that range the bolt-action is still a more versatile and reliable choice. SASRs need a tweak in my opinion, something to make hitting moving targets easier at the very least. A recoil and or velocity buff would be a great start, and if that doesn't get desirable results maybe a slight boost to damage so it's 3-4 shots to kill with a semi-auto, not the currently 4-6.
  18. Sworaven

    The KSR-35 and the 99SV are the 2 last primary weapons for the infiltrator I need to auraxium. What a chore! I feel very uncomfortable using them. It's like I'm at a constant disadvantage.

    There are a couple of things about the KSR-35 that annoy me. It always has scope sway (same goes for the TSAR-42) even when you use the iron sights. And it seems to take ages to ADS, even though you're kinda force to because the hipfire accuracy isn't good.

    They could use some tweaks to make them a more reasonable alternative to the BASR's.
  19. OldMaster80

    Personally I threw the 99SV away almost immediately.
    The KSR-35 instead has been a good weapon for weeks and I had very good score with that. The problem imho is it doesn't have to be consider a traditional sniper rifle, the one that you just sit hidden between the rocks and fire infantry 500mts away. Used like that is a very poor weapon and if you got the auraxium well congratulations you have all my respect sir! :eek:
    KSR-35 feels more like a mid range rifle: you have to put a 2x scope, silencer and forward grip, then catch your enemies by surprise and take then down one by one. I used that almost like a Scout Rifle and it was nice. The best thing of the KSR-35 is that is very cheap.

    But for battle style "on the move" I believe the Scout Rifle HSR-1 does the same job much better. It causes massive damage, has limited recoil and sway, with a laser pointer you can use it a close quarter from the hip. At mid range it can also snipe pretty well.
  20. SifuBob

    I Bought the HSR -1 not long ago, have been using it a bit and i quite like using it. just wondering, what loadouts do you people that have it run? i have been using laser dot, flash suppressor and 3.4 red dot scope on it.

    Also, general thoughts on the gun?