Scythe is OP

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by adamts01, Nov 20, 2016.

  1. zaspacer

    I only blame the Skyknights for lobbying for changes or to block changes. I don't blame them for their play in-game. Likewise I don't blame the Gank Squads for their play in-game. I blame the Devs for the Skyknight and Gank Squad play in-game.
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  2. adamts01

    Good for you. How about this? If you grew up slinging and thieving to get by in the ghetto would you want your kids to go through the same **** to make out just like you did? Props to you, but most people either don't try with this game or leave to better options. Hard mode for such a bad game just doesn't work. EVE is incredibly hard to get good at, but people stuck with it because it's a good game. Planetside 2 doesn't have that going for it.

    I agree.

    You can dodge it though, and that's the beauty of it, same with my missile proposal in my other thread that no one cared to read. The "noobs" would still have to be in a position to shoot, or all their shots would miss. If there were an aim assist gun, there would need to be a seriously high penalty for shooting targets at range and targets moving perpendicular to aim. So if 3 noobs were flying next to eachother, if you could dodge missiles/shots from one of them, you'd dodge missiles/shots from all of them. And if the noobs are flying and positioning themselves correctly, then the ace deserves to die in a 3v1. This is the exact way everything works in real life, the wheel doesn't have to be reinvented, the mechanics are already there.

    Very good question, and after sitting on it, I've got a couple answers.

    There are different ways to make a video game challenging, make an actually fun and challenging game, or **** with the interface so it's challenging to get your character to do what you want. Planetside sits in the middle. You can't bind Yaw to your mouse, like every other game people fly in. There's zero reason for this. People intuitively want to control their character like they're used to but have to re-learn how to ride a bike. Instead of fine tuning your aim a little, you have to deal with hitting on/off A & D keys. It's just annoying and pointless. They removed all real momentum in the game, so typical problems you'd face in the air just aren't there, and had to compensate for the lack of physics by making A2A weapons incredibly hard to use. If infantry, tank or flight were standalone games, they'd be laughed at all the way to non-existence, but for some reason people still defend gameplay here.

    So now we'll look at gunning. If people were given nothing but a sniper rifle on the ground, and only headshots counted, then no one would play this game. But that's the level of difficulty you have to face when flying. On the ground, and in successful games, you're given low skill/low reward guns, medium skill/medium reward, and high skill/high reward weapons. Air here only has a high skill and zero skill option. Most players are fine staying in the medium/medium level forever, but there just isn't that option in this game. What's worse, the no skill weapons aren't rewarding for the shooter unless flying in gank squads, and are frustrating and unavoidable for the target. What needs to happen for the air community to become strong is for a medium skill weapon to be introduced. That doesn't mean nerfing skill, because the high skill weapon should always have the highest reward, it just means more people can be involved in the fight. It's a cookie cutter recipe and PS2 air is failing because they're not using it. Would more skyknights die? Probably. I'm sure they had a lot of fun LOLing through 12 enemy ESFs, but those 12 enemies either gank squaded up or left the game, so now we're here, closing servers.

    Thirdly, this is a **** game, just the only one of it's kind so it's semi-successful. Almost every other game does everything better than PS2, they just don't combine it in to an open world. I've got the time to get better at this game, but it's just not worth it, not with all the ******** that's out there. It's just something to do till something better comes along. The more I learn about the game, the more I realize that getting good isn't really that, it's just learning how to overcome bad mechanics, poor servers, and high ping players.
  3. LtBomber1

    For real, this threads again?
    Next will be Vanguard shield OP... (oh we had this two weeks before)
  4. adamts01

    What about my OP do you disagree with?
  5. Ximaster

    Scythe is OP,like all Vanu things. Praise Vanu please.
  6. Jawarisin

    Well yeah, we don't need to be a gank squad. We're one man/woman gank squads ;)
    It's a rare thing, and usually disbands after we did what we wanted to do.

    For the record, reload speed is ******** on a rotary. You want to 1 clip player.[/quote]
  7. adamts01

    You really need to either brush up on patch notes or play the game if you're going to keep forum warrioring. Precision Bomber is the frame with air brakes, not High-G. The Gal Walker got a Velocity nerf, and the Dalton is considerably faster than the Zepher. It's kind of like you're trying to re-live your highschool football days the way you brag about your unit you used to run with. I still keep up with guys from games I quit playing, just because I'm still interested in where the game is going, but I don't try to give advice on mechanics that have long since been changed. As he and I liking the long range gun, it's because we're more effective with it as beginner pilots. The high round count makes missed shots less punishing, the higher velocity makes aiming just a little easier, and the slight spread gives some hits instead of none. I'm well aware that the stock nosegun is better in better hands, but the long range gun is a great stepping stone.
  8. zaspacer

    I agree. But it's also on of the reasons I don't use it, even when spawning an ESF for A2A vs. ESFs.

    Ah, good point. That does make more sense.

    When I face better ESF pilots, I lose. When I face better Lib pilots, I break and run. When I face overwhelming Gal fire, I break and run. So I don't worry about committing Loadout choices to maximize fighting them. Instead I commit Loadout choices to the units I *do* intend to fight and kill. And the High Mag Nosegun is a solid contributor for my most used Loadouts.
    I don't know if it's a lower skill ceiling, it's just different. With large capacity, you have to learn to fight ESFs with the understanding that they will out dps you. And if they use Default, they will have better accuracy too. But that they will hit reloads more often than you. It lends to trying to avoid face-to-face closer exchanges, more aggressively dodging non-ambush alpha strikes.
    I use the High Mag Nosegun specifically to boost my effectiveness vs. Ground Vehicles and Libs. And I can confirm it is very effective for this.
    How do I know? Because I typically don't start in an ESF. I start on the ground. I typically only switch to an ESF when the enemy Ground Vehicles, (sometimes) Libs, or Infantry nest overwhelm the engagement I am at. Then I spawn my ESF... and fairly consistently, and effectively remove that threat.
    If the enemy force overwhelming us is ESF, I will typically just use HA w/ Lockon. For Armor, I will often just flank with Engi Turret from a high position. For the rest, or if those methods fail, I will use spawn and use an ESF.

    Yup. No point in choosing Loadouts vs. players who don't play anymore.
    Tomcats may have kill the Skyknight game, but it didn't affect most players in the game... because most players in the game don't fly.
    I agree that **** management from DBG(SOE) has been a detrimental factor.

    My team is casual players. And I already covered that my use of ESFs to help engagements I am at are often very effective. We also covered that it is very rare for me to face a highly dangerous Lib, such that they don't really factor into my gameplay often.
    Well, whatever A2A gun they modified and slapped on the Gals a while back made a huge difference. Walker? Before I could just sit and shoot at Gals all day. Now they have the firepower when crewed to run me out of the area.
    Gals have always been able to soak up massive damage, but when I first started flying ESFs they never pressured me in the Air with fire from range. Now they do. If they have always had that ability, then it is the opponent behavior/knowledge that has changed. Regardless, my interaction with them now vs. non-empty Gals is typically very different.
    Bottom line is they can cover a very large area and effectively remove ESF players like me from the map. One minute I am doing G2A support, the next I am getting jumped by 5-10 Scythes. After that, if I respawn an ESF, it becomes about me trying to evade their patrol, sticking with larger swarms of ally Air, and/or sticking near ally Player Made Bases.
    It is highly disruptive on my ESF gameplay and effectiveness.
    I am cool with ESF pilots of any skill level. I only have an issue with those who skip supporting their allies, and instead just farm lower skilled or overwhelmed enemy Air. Beyond just annoying me, I think it's bad for the game.

    I don't blame the pilots. I blame SOE/DBG for not curtailing this gameplay with things like Air Radar over enemy territory.

  9. kr47er

    wait what?
  10. Jamuro

    not that i aggree with the very misguided view people seem to have of hornets (as in that they can kill tanks like it's nothing, without considering travel time and so on).

    Also one salvo a max ... someone drank a bit much of the coolaid^^

    It's funny how people come to such conclusions without having any experience on the subject but never the less feel suited to moan about those rumors they heard on the forums.

    But you can interrupt the guidance of hornets by switching to your zoom optic (be it thermal or whatever) once they launched and switching guns.

    Sounds great but overall it's a very situational gimmik and mostly used for attacking infantry during a high speed flyby (which usually is just an iteration away from local AA reaching certain death) and not to attack tanks that can move out of the way.
  11. adamts01

    They only track when you're using the optic with which they were fired. So if you zoom in, take a shot, line up the missiles, you can safely zoom out and bug out and they'll hit where the previous optic was pointed.
  12. adamts01

    Switching guns doesn't do it, only switching optics. It is very situational, but incredibly OP in those situations, like with base turrets or Hives.
  13. Jamuro

    yes and i certainly so far have treated it as a bug (meaning i generally don't use it) but for now it's part of the game.

    That said it usually doesn't end up breaking the game in a major way (except if you let it)

    And hornets certainly don't oneshot maxes ... i just took this post as example since it realy made me cringe.

    There is nothing wrong with stating that you feel like weapon X is op (idealy while mentioning the situation) but it's frustrating to see people post straight up nonsense they heard from a guy who heard it from a guy and so on as truth.

    I know this sounds elitist ... (yaii enforcing skyknight prejudices) but for whatever reason it seems to happen in threads about air a lot more than elsewhere.

    Could ofc be a case of greener grass on the neighbours side^^
  14. Jawarisin

    It's not a stepping stone, it's a crutch. It rewards spraying instead of pacing shots and aiming better. It actually is detrimental to anybody trying to improve.
  15. LodeTria

    Ever since they removed damage drop-off from the high capacity guns they are okay now, and good for libs & galaxys at medium-long ranges. The TR one is the least gimped imo, being almost decent whilst the others are so-so.
  16. Jawarisin

    A nosegun is an all purpose weapon. All of them can pretty much do everything; albeit rotaries will run out of ammo way faster. To do A2G, the AI noseguns (if NC or TR) or Hornets will help you more than getting high capacity weapon.

    It's really just weaker in general. Your weapon DPS doesn't matter as much as your accuracy. Any weapon will decimate with good accuracy. Ultimately though, once you get better, there's no use using a high capacity weapon if your enemies die from your first clip (or second for tougher ones).

    Well, the right tool for the right job. But the rotaries will be more effective to take those out. It'll just run out of bullets faster. The only place where the high capacity really shines is to kill galaxies. Otherwise (without hornets etc) it's a pain in the *** because of their health pool.

    Skyknights are part of the planetside 2 ecosystem. Imagine a planetside if EVERYBODY was the same skill level. Basically, whenever you met someone, it was 50/50 with no possibility of improvement whatsoever. One where outfits don't mean anything because everybody is interchangeable and the same.

    That'd be boring. Skyknights are just the elite group in the air. But there's elite infantry outfits too, and ground vehicles ones too. Skyknights is just the hardest one to get to. And the fact that skyknight quit might not seem all that bad, but it ultimately affects the "ecosystem" of planetside 2. It's really easy to see when you compare emerald and connery (although emerald has fallen really low recently):

    On connery, ground pounding is way more prevalant. Emerald has them more skittish, because skyknights are the ones keeping the ground pounders at bay. When I flew on connery, one of the things I saw that stayed with me thus far is scythes and mossies both bombing an VS/TR biolab airpad fight. Neither of the two factions groups of ESF shot each other, both just ground pounded.

    You probably just get to deal with them more often. They used to be used nearly exclusively for transport except by very select groups of players.

    Basically they made skyknights quit the server and are doing their job in a less effective and more cancerous way.

    An easy indication of how effective you are is the exp/hour. Although it's not an all-mighty stats, it's a fairly well rounded one. You'll never see a skyknight with low score per hour unless it's a dead continent or there's whale taming going on. How do you think I reach an AVERAGE score of 55k unboosted/without membership? It was not by being useless, that's for sure.

    Of course, there's days where it'll be low in the 40k. But I've had days where I've sustained over 80k per hour too, because targets were plentiful, enemies ********, and I was doing well.

    But before accusing any skyknights of not supporting their allies. How many players do you know can sustain a 55k per hour average unboosted and without membership? My guess is not many. That's just me, but all skyknights in general manage really well, because we're good at what we do; hell, that's how we earned our name isn't it? We were pissing people off so bad by being better than them, that we got infamous.

    Just saying :p
  17. Jawarisin

    For galaxies yes. But you shouldn't attack a galaxy with a lone ESF anyways, unless you've scoured the continent and there's NOTHING else.

    Rotary is better for esfs/libs.
  18. adamts01

    Shooting turrets and Hives is pretty OP. If there's any cover for control/space, you can out dps an AA turret. I don't think that should be the case.

    I never said "oneshot", I said "1 salvo", huge difference. But this is only the case with the Scythe, as both missiles won't get direct hits if fired at the same time on Mosquitos and Reavers. I agree that Hornets aren't game breaking, but they work considerably better on the Scythe than anything else, and that's all this was about. And this isn't an air bashing thread, I love flying. I've been playing this game for about 3 months and almost have my Mossy Aaraxiumed, just need to start getting kills with my infantry farming weapons, because I've been focusing on air and armor, which is how I know how powerful Hornets are.

    Tomcats and Coyotes are crutch weapons, hi-cap inaccuracy is really only a factor at 300m or so and beyond. How long has it been since you've actually invested time in to this game?
  19. Jawarisin

    Tomcats and coyotes are extreme crutches. The high capacity ones are crutch, but just not big ones. But the near-infinite supply of bullets means you can spray and pray a lot, instead of having to be careful not to miss.
  20. adamts01

    Get over it already, you could use that logic to argue that the stock nosegun is a crutch weapon over the Rotary.