Scythe is OP

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by adamts01, Nov 20, 2016.

  1. adamts01

    When it comes down to it, the pilot counts more than the machine, but the Scythe has a definite edge over the others. I've got the most time in the Mosquito, then Scythe, with the Reaver being my least played but favorite. I've really tried to be unbiased with this and I'd like to know what you guys think who better know the game.

    Guns: The Reaver has the highest burst damage, but lowest damage per magazine, missed shots are highly punished. The Mosquito has the lowest burst damage but highest mag damage and round count. Missed shots aren't that big a deal, you do have enough bullets to see misses and correct your aim, but you really need to paint your target to do damage, I think they're the weakest and hardest to do well with. The Scythe is middle of the road with dps, has enough shots in the mag to miss many shots and still be alright, and the higher velocity makes landing those shots that much easier. I do think the the best pilots could kill the fastest with the NC guns, but like NC infantry weapons, 90% of people would be better off with an easier to use weapon.

    Reverse Maneuver: It's pretty much reverse maneuver or go home in this game, and vertical speed is what this is all about. Hover is the go-to frame for this, so these numbers represent that. While I feel the Reaver does have better acceleration, which helps for control/space dodging, that leaves you a sitting target in a dogfight, and the best pilots I've seen are able to constantly fly backwards, nailing a target, while not becoming one themselves. So look at these vertical speed values without boost and take from it what you will. Reaver: 96 kph. Mosquito: 122 kph. Scythe: 138 kph.

    Handling: They all maneuver great in the air, but the Scythe is the only one that really turns when the plane turns, the others just float around a little. While this floatyness does make getting in to a reverse maneuver a little easier, it also makes your flight path much more predictable and easier to lead.

    Hornets: These are one of the most powerful weapons in the game and need their own category. They can kill any tank in 3 seconds with two salvos, 1 salvo a Max, 1 missile any infantry, wreck hives, wreck Libs, Wreck Gals, wreck head on ESFs, can be laser guided or dumb fired, and carry an obscene amount of ammunition, enough to kill a dozen MBTs. They work on the Scythe, but just don't track correctly on the other two. They launch from underneath the Scythe instead of from the side, letting them fly right next to each other, striking the same place, while the other faction's shots are spread out, often with one missing. That also makes it near impossible to land both on another ESF if you're not in the Scythe.

    Front Profile: "But they're a pancake from the top!" Whatever. Big air battles are few and far between in this game, you're most likely going to be shooting at your opponent while he's shooting at you, and the Scythe is the hardest to hit. The other guy will probably have a wingman, but if you don't hover and control/space, he won't be able to nail you from ideal angles. And not to mention, you're more of a flying doughnut than a pancake.

    Like I said, most of it comes down to the pilot, but when equal skill is concerned, the Scythe wins.
    • Up x 2
  2. Humoreske

    Scythe is blessed by dev. Mosquito too. The difference can be compensated with skill.
    • Up x 1
  3. Corezer

    ESF imbalance has already been verified by some of the best pilots in this game. The devs just don't care.
    • Up x 2
  4. adamts01

    I was completely prepared for some "get good" comments, you guys are letting me down. We're not supposed to get along and agree on the forums. What has the world come to?
  5. Badname707

    There is no way to fix the scythe without making it fat and ugly. That front profile cannot be balanced against without nerfing it in ways that would rightfully be complained about.
  6. adamts01

    For starters they could fix hornets on the other aircraft, and take away the extra gun velocity, which the Scythe has for literally no reason.
  7. Villanuk

    The flight dynamics could change, it by far the easier ESF to fly, make it the mossy, a death trap of fun and not so easy to hover, or be so stable, that alone will balance it..

    ( Dev just looking and thinking no chance, i love my scythe farming )
    • Up x 1
  8. Ziggurat8

    I could have sworn they normalized velocity on the nose cannons not too long ago. Wasn't that in the patch notes?

    As for profile I get shot down by vanguards and dumbfires more often in a scythe which would lead me to believe (need Chingles stats on this) that ground based AA has a distinct advantage against the scythe over the other 2 factions. (Could explain why I never see scythe air support on my server)

    They still haven't fixed hornets? Really? Just shameful. Here I thought rocketpods and hellfires were the only thing to use because, well, they are, not because hornets are broken.

    Scythe is the best at the RM. That's news to me. Sure feels like the reaver is much more capable in that department but it might just be the acceleration difference. Seems kind of sketchy but if you say so.

    Honestly none of that matters. Maybe for the truly exceptional pilots in the game having an edge makes a big difference. From my experience having MORE trumps everything else. For whatever reason on my server there are 2-5 mossies for every 1 of the other ESF. No idea why. But it sure as **** makes flying a scythe more about running away than exploiting any kind of edge they may have in A2A.
  9. Movoza

    Having an edge does not constitute OP. I think slight advantages in one and disadvantages in other are normal in a asymmetrical balanced game.
  10. Klabauter8

    Just because a faction is better at something than other factions doesn't mean that this particular thing has to be OP. Factions differ and they all have their strengths and weaknesses, which is a good thing. Not saying they are perfectly balanced, but I disagree that Scythes would be OP if they are really better than other ESFs.
    • Up x 1
  11. adamts01

    There's either less powerful, equal, or over powered. But forget that. With most units I wouldn't mind so much, for example: Most people feel the Vanguard is a little crap compared to the Prowler, but the Prowler is a sitting duck for air, while the Vanguard can pop it's shield and usually survive till a Lib or Hornet ESF has to **** off or die. So it's balanced in the big scheme of things. BUT.... Air is it's own mini-game, and 95% of air are ESFs, so that imbalance is more drastic than with the ground. It would be comparable to NC heavies getting 15% more shield. As most fights are almost entirely heavies, NC would have the cards stacked before the fight even started. Since air is in it's own little world, I think extra care should be taken to make it as balanced as possible.
  12. adamts01

    Infantry is balanced between all the factions. NC is better up close wit shotguns, VS is better at range, and TR is decent at everything. Ground vehicles are balanced as well in their own ways, with some units making up for other unit's weaknesses. But VS air is just better. When the air game has a dominant playstyle, and one faction owns that playstyle, that's bad.
  13. Tankalishious

    Scythe op.... LULZ

    Scythe is good when you get the drop on or start fighting evenly nose to nose due to low profile. But if you are getting into a long range hoover fight with a good scythe pilot you are going to have a bad day. Get the drop or chase on a scythe, the scythe is dead even if you absolutely suck at gunning. The top profile is about one small hex in size. Every time you try to pitch in any direction either to dodge or to turn and fight, you show that big profile and die hideously fast. Doing the same manoeuvre in the pin(mossie) or the reaver is effortlessly easy in comparison. Good reaver/mossiepilots get up close and personal, and reverseboost hard to get good attack angles on that huge profile.

    Personally i prefer the mossie and reaver because of the all-round smaller profile. Fighting scythes are pretty easy once you dont engage it on its terms.
  14. adamts01

    Of course there are ways a better pilot in a Mossy or Reaver can beat a crap pilot in a Scythe, that's not at all what this is about.
  15. Jawarisin

    You're partly right and partly not right. Let me explain myself.

    Yes, ESF balance only really matters for the better pilots (except about hornets, that's an actual problem).

    No, more doesn't trump anything else. In the air, skills > number. I can say with confidence, that if I'm in my lib, I can kill 3+ other libs at the same time unless they are really good players. I can also take a way bigger number of ESF. Here's a small example out of a small video of one of my gunners I think he ended up with 125 kills / 4 deaths after an hour. And as you can see, my flying is very aggressive, I wasn't staying in the backlines.

    As far as ESF is concerned, I know I can take on a few ESFs by myself, and better esf pilots can take on 5 ESFs by themselves. Here's a twitch channel to one of those esf pilots. Ultimately, if you bring 30 average players in aircrafts, I can bring good 5 pilots and mow them all down.
  16. adamts01

    I'm sure that was how the world worked before Coyotes and Tomcats, it sounds like a wonderful place. By the way, I've almost araxiumed my Mossy, I can't wait to have an opinion!

    Oh, and if that's the same video from a couple months ago you don't have much to brag about, shooting down a bunch of noobs just learning to fly because TR had Indar. Those guys got close and just sat there, pretty bizarre behavior when there's a Dalton in the air.
  17. Jawarisin

    That's actually a twitch channel to an ESF pilot o_O tho at the moment he's playing Steep. Though you can go look at his previous videos.

    And if you're referring to the lib video, I'd say that's actually a pretty good impression of what connery looks like. In fact, it's like that ALL the time. Also, you think they are standing still or staying there, but that's not the case. That's just me piloting it to give the dalton the good shots; it's the difference between having a good and a crappy pilot. But it's the same on any server; and as far as skill level... well, there's nothing I can do about that, that's how it is everywhere.

    But yeah, you only get the feeling that those ESFs sat there; you'd have to consider the possibility that I'm just moving to keep them in like that. Take a look at the mini-map, you'll realise we're constantly moving. Also, you have to realise you're looking at one of the best gunners in the game, so it looks easier than it actually is. It wasn't "bizzare behavior", it was just good piloting/gunning and... connery.

    Nice job auraxiuming that mossy! Keep it up! If you need pointers or are looking for people to duel/help you improve, feel free to ask. Good luck!

    Donut vs Doughnut
    Spotted the Englishman
  18. adamts01

    Regardless, shooting Mossies when TR has Indar is like hunting at the zoo. What I've been doing is keeping 400-500m from Daltons in a constant reverse maneuver around them till they run, then they're toast. Or if they try to close and get within weapon range then I just boost away and keep at a safe distance, where my stock nosegun can still nail them. I probably solo 10 Libs for every Dalton I take. Those guys on Connery obviously didn't know how to fly, they tried taking you on at spitting distance. The better at ESFs I get, the weaker I think the Lib is, aside from a 1/300 Dalton, it just doesn't have a gun that can take out ESFs at the range ESFs can take it out from. I say nerf the Dalton against ESFs and buff the tail guns, turn the Lib in to a ground killer that can defend itself with the rear gun, or go hunting air with a Shredder. It's anti-armor gun shouldn't be it's best/only option against good ESFs.

    It's almost there. I still need a couple hundred or so kills with the LOL-Pods and Banshee. I've been focusing on A2A so those weapons haven't been getting much love, plus I don't really care. But yeah, it's mostly Stealth/Racer/Rotary here, just trying to get a kill and get out before the gank squad floods the sky with Tomcats. I don't plan on keeping up with it though, this game and most players really are ****, it's just the best thing till Star Citizen gets a little further along, or until I move back to the States and have to get back to real life and don't have time for games.

    Haha. I'm from Texas actually. I've been in the Philippines too long though. My Englishhas gone to ****.
    • Up x 1
  19. Jawarisin

    I don't recall anything about TR having indar, may or may not have been the case.

    Also, I think your experience is... with bad libs. ESFs do have the advantage, and of course, you can play like a wuss and run at the first sign of a lib, but you won't ever kill a decent lib doing that. I could just land and out-repair you for instance. Or cut your line of sight. Or, depending on gunners, I know some of them who'd still kill you at those ranges with either the dalton or the shredder.

    There's no reason to nerf the dalton against ESFs, it's already the hardest weapon to use against them. Just let any random player try to shoot ESFs with a dalton, and you'll see that unless the gunner is in the top 0.1%, he isn't going to hit ANYTHING.

    But yeah, it's easy to criticise people in a video, and while I admit connery really is a joke as far as the air is concerned (although to be honest, air folks are leaving the game in masses in general, even on emerald), I think you haven't seen a really good lib crew yet, or if so, you couldn't recognise it as such when you got killed/ran away.

    All in all yes, the liberator is at a disadvantage when facing an ESF, and it's not half as strong as people seem to think they are. And you're starting to understand it because you're getting more experience in the air (you're earning yourself an experienced opinion!).

    I'm trying to explain something here but I know I'm terrible at explaining it, so instead, I'd like you to try thinking about this. Imagine what your idea of ESFs/Libs/air game/air balance/AA was when you never flew. Now, think about the difference that there is now that you've got more experience and you have a better idea of what's going on (for instance, you said you get the feeling that libs are weaker and weaker, which points to over-exagerating their capability from some bad previous experiences on the ground or you were told that by someone else),

    Now, realise that the difference you can see now, that's how different your view would also get if you decided to auraxium the liberator. The more you do, the more you know, and the more experience you get.

    I don't know if you got what I'm trying to say, as I find it hard to formulate correctly. But in short terms, as much as your opinion/knowledge changed since you've started flying, it would change nearly as much if you did the same thing with the liberator.
  20. adamts01

    I've spent too much time playing this game over the last 3 months, and I've never seen TR pull that many mosquitos unless they have Indar, and when they do pull that many, it's only 2 or 3 that have any clue what they're doing and all those Mosquitos just swarm over a zerg not doing much good. It could very well be that I haven't run in to an exceptional Lib crew and that's why I'm not slightly worried about them, but honestly, if the skill ceiling is that high that out of thousands of players on a server not one of them can use a vehicle in a manor that makes it scary then that vehicle needs some tuning to make it easier to use. The Lib is still my favorite vehicle in the game, but it's just exponentially weaker than those 2 or 3 pilots each in ESFs, so I stopped banging my head up against a wall and spent my time getting better at ESFs. I'd still love to see a Lib kill a good ESF at 500m with a Shredder, with the pathetic velocity of that gun and how much you have to lead it I just don't see how it's possible if the ESF knows what he's doing. But yeah, I'd love to see it.

    It's for the sake of gameplay I feel the Dalton needs to be nerfed, not because I think the Lib needs a nerf. Infantry getting 1-shot by a sniper rifle is one thing, but I don't think ESF getting 1-shot from a lucky Dalton shot at 500m is good for anything but YouTube montages. Up the velocity and make it 2 shots maybe, but I believe there should be somewhat of a time to kill for a 350 nanite vehicle, at least against projectiles that can't be dodged. But overall I really think the Lib needs a buff. It can't compete against those same 3 or even 2 pilots in ESFs in the air and can't deal close to the damage those planes can against ground with Hornets. Libs are just too big and slow to be engaging ground in big fights from such short ranges that the Tankbuster and Shredder require. I think increasing Shredder velocity and drastically increasing walker damage falloff would be a good first step.