Scrubs with Shotguns

Well, nothing much you can do here.
Granted that the shotgunner doesn't get the jump on you (aka suprise you from behind, or just pop from behind a corner) but you actually have time to react to his presence, the only things you can do are:

0) Try to gain the initiative (Wrel teaches you here, check his videos about "initiative")
1) ADAD like a madman
2) fire from the hip
3) aim for the head

I can assure you, there's nothing more rewarding that 3 headshot kill a full-shielded NC Heavy with the Jackasshammer with your commissioner.

Those ragetell hackusations makes your day... really




TL; DR: skill and luck.

Ugh that song....

I don't know for sure that the definition(in video games) started as the one I linked. I just know that it was used that way in fighting games before online shooters were even popular. I don't recall even hearing the definition used in shooter until a few years ago. Now I'm curious about how the word became popular in shooters. I bet it was a youtube video that did it.

More like an elitist MIRC channel when Youtube was just a thought ^^

I don't know how you guys don't get this. The fact that someone can use a shotgun to make up for a skill gap without regards to improving him/herself and then switch to carbines or whatever at "medium" ranges (less risk of death to good players at medium ranges than close ranges) means that a user loses nothing when they use a shotgun. I guess a MAX is "supposed" to dominate infantry, that's your reasoning as to why pre-nerf ZOE was balanced, right?

48 kdr and almost 6000 kills with the Supernova PC, didn't even bother checking your NC/TR but i'm guessing prenerf banshee/marauder/HE lockdown/canister/scatmax.

My point is that you should **** any threads relating to balance.

I rarely use shotguns, I'll usually pull MAX or HE in reaction to being cheesed. This may make me seem situational, but I wouldn't mind if all of that crap was axed from the game.

LOL Idk why I said "situational", meant hypocritical (I can't edit on firefox for some reason, it shows a white box that I can't click on)

Shotguns own when you use them against high KDR ADAD spergs.

It's like using A2A missiles against sky knights.

Lol if someone's going to get mad about the weapon I choose to use against them, I want them to be really mad.

This guy gets it.

I can't disagree with that. I prefer a more streamlined experience. Most people haven't played it, but I played BF1943 for a while on the 360, and it was essentially a BF game stripped down to it's core ideas. Maybe that game took it to the extreme, but I don't think the combined arms FPS subgenre needs to be such a bloated mess to be fun.

So, you're saying being able to change your weapon type easily is not fair? Pardon me, but you seem to be all over the place with this. Describe what is actually frustrating about shotguns in one, simple sentence. Currently it seems to me you don't like loadout switching and not so much actual way shotguns are balanced.

OHK mechanics are just boring and frustrating unless they have some difficulty or level of skill required to pull them off. At least a BASR user has to adjust for lead and bullet drop and get a head shot. A shotgun can do it from the hip, running at full speed, with just a few pellets hitting the head, in a game were its relatively easy to force or otherwise only put yourself in cqc situations. Just because something 'lacks versatility in range' doesn't make it any less cheesy and boring. A bad mechanic is a bad mechanic and shotguns should have never been added to the game as it currently is with super fast TTKs. Maybe if the infantry TTK in general was lengthened to a degree in which it took significantly longer they would be viable and not cheesy at the same time... but that is not the game we have.

They lose loads, how can you not understand that?
You are basically saying "the fact that someone can use a sniper to make up for skill gap (you are simply assuming it's to reduce a skillgap) without regards to improving him/herself (stragetic movement to get your enemy within the proper range isn't improving yourself?) and then switch to LMG's or whatever at "medium" ranges means that a user loses nothing when they use a sniper".
The sentence in itself doesn't really make sense...
Shotgun doesn't have a skillgap and players don't improve themselves is what you claim, that's understandable. Then you say that they can switch to carbines at medium ranges which means less risk of death to good players at medium than close range, and then you go on to say that a user loses nothing when they use a shotgun?

Look, it's very simple:
Shotgun: extreme close range it wins, any other range it loses
Carbine: in extreme CQC it is outgunned by shotgun, but still in what you can consider short range the Carbine becomes better than the shotgun, Carbine is also useful for medium to long range.
LMG: better than the Carbine at medium to long ranges where the lower damage falloff and higher ammo count mean less downtime and more chance to kill with one magazine.
Assault rifles: A Carbine but with much less damage falloff and good accuracy in practice this weapon is a bit a strange on the battlefield.
Sniper rifles: good for medium ranges if you are good, but the best weapon at long and extreme long ranges.

See how fast shotguns become less useful than, say, a Carbine? In fact, with a Mauler if you do a 2-hit, which is not the most likely outcome for "no skill, no self improving players", you have a TTK of 0,266666.
With a Carbine you have a TTK of 0,48 in CQC (the first shot is instant before the ROF comes into play). That's double a shotgun at point-blank range. But a shotgun easily comes at ranges where you need 3 or more shots due to pellet spread and the extreme damage falloff, which means that you need to aim even more carefully than you think to make those pellets actually hit. At this point the TTK of a shotgun rises quickly, while the Carbine stays the same.

All in all, it means this: The shotgun is good in CQC, but only in CQC. Which is what it's designed for. Players constantly jockey for the best distance to fire their weapons.

Don't put words in my mouth, the ZOE was a completely different problem. The ZOE was about giving a high-resistance, high damage weapon much more speed and DPS than it should have, with too little drawbacks. We are talking about a CQC weapon it's effectiveness in CQC, and what skill is needed to use one.

But I got a nice task for you: Record how you break into the biolab chokepoint with a shotgun for instance. Or fight inside an AMP station with a shotgun for instance. Show an unedited reel so we can see your failures as well instead of showing only your sucesses, otherwise you can make Battle rifles look like ultra-weapons. It's not extremely difficult to use a shotgun in a biolab chokepoint, or AMP station, but it will hopefully set your idea of "balance" right as it takes a lot more skill than you think.
I think your problem is that you think that there is one skill: aiming. But there's much more. Isn't it a skill for an LA to find the right spot to fire from? If you just pick any roof or ledge to shoot from, you have a large chance you are simply spotted and gunned down. You need to find the right spot or keep moving after each salvo.
Isn't there some skill in medics staying alive long enough to get their teammates back on their feet? I see many medics fail simply because they want to kill stuff and use their revive as secondary, then they die before they can even revive one guy. While in reality a Medic was designed more to be able to defend itself with incredible power, but from the back of his allies, ready to revive a fallen one.

I barely even use shotguns homefry, so I ain't defending no crutch.

I just don't whine when a weapon kills me in it's strength.

I've still killed a lot of shotgun users in biolabs and tower fights with a carbine or LMG. As LA I'm always up on some vertical post shooting down on people, with an LMG I've got a shield which kinda ruins any shotty players day unless they can get a bullseye on my dome which works just as good as with any other weapon anyways.

But sure, if you can't handle a couple of guys running around with shotguns who will lose every engagement beyond 5m then yeah, stay away from tower fights and biolabs (biolabs are **** anyways for other reasons)

Ouch.
To be fair I've used AP on my magrider almost exclusively since they changed AP/Armor values forever ago. I'd wager my AP magrider k/d would be as high today if my usual gunner didn't have impeccable aim and a faster reload. Not that I waste time camping with AP. ~1700 banshee kills, while prowler HE isn't even unlocked. Marauder and each hacksaw have all of 500 kills each. Canister has a whopping 13. Lightning HE not unlocked anywhere. Oh well.

Does your main have more HA playtime % than mine has engineer? That would be funny.

I think we both agree that HE and max spam could be removed without much lost. Like the prenerf underbarrel grenades that no one misses. I would go further though and take a look at the heavy assault's role in this team game.

Funny story: there was a battle rank 100 VS infil that kept trying to ghost cap a base on Indar months ago, so myself and a squadmate spawned there both using Claw pump actions. He'd manage to kill one of us and then get insta-gibbed. Over and over. After a few times we'd figured out what his consistent tactic was and go into rooms instantly putting a shot into the nearest corner from the door. We knew where his AMS was, we just left it alone because he was getting madder and madder. He eventually came back with a lolpods Scythe and I hit him directly with a Shrike.

The rage that flowed was great.

I could see stripping shotguns off HA's, but you'd have to do something about the Jackhammer and I dunno what you could replace it with that would be remotely fair. A burst fire, scopeless railjack maybe? I dunno.