[Science] Claymores: They'll get you, and your little dog, too.

Discussion in 'Infiltrator' started by Tyzh, Dec 21, 2012.

  1. Tyzh

    Frustrated with the ambiguity over who can actually see the green lasers from my claymores, I decided to sit down with a friend and do some science. I'll start with an odd rumour, though, that I've noticed while browsing the forum.

    Le Myth: "Claymores are not directional, all AP mines are the same and it's just a skin."
    No. Claymores only kill people in front of them. That's why they are claymores. I do, however, think I figured out where this rumour started. It seems that if you are near the person placing the claymore, but not the person, there is a glitch in it's placement that may cause you to see it facing an incorrect direction. (This is possibly true of the other faction's AP mines, but untested. Also, irrelevant due to their nature.) The direction that it will kill you, however, is the direction that the owner of the mine sees it facing. It's entirely possible for you to walk past a claymore thinking you are in the clear only to explode because it was facing a different direction than it appeared to be. (See Diagram 1) If you walk far enough away from the claymore and come back (possibly anything causing it to redraw) it will be adjusted to display to you properly.

    As for the primary reason for the sciencing...The rule determining whether or not you can see the lasers seems to be the same for everyone, including the person placing the claymore. Proximity at the time of activation. (30m) It doesn't matter if you are a friendly, an enemy, or even the guy placing the Claymore. If you are standing within 30m of the mine at the time of it's activation, you'll see the green lasers. If you are further away, no green lasers. (See Diagrams 2 & 3) Whether or not you see the lasers seems to be decided once per claymore and no amount of leaving and coming back changed that. (Unlike the facing glitch mentioned earlier.)

    P.S. It's worth noting that on the lowest graphics settings you won't see the green lasers regardless of proximity. However, it will remember whether or not you should see lasers for any claymores placed and will turn them on if you turn up your settings while in game.

    DIAGRAM 1:
    Infiltrator Me is pointing my weapon in the direction that the claymore is actually facing. You may notice inconsistencies.

    DIAGRAMS 2 & 3:
    In these pictures you'll notice two claymores. Both placed by me. One has the green light, as it was placed while he was near, the other does not as it was placed while he was standing further away.

    Thanks for reading, I hope you found this information useful. :)
    • Up x 13
  2. Novmiech

    Excellent work.
  3. Xiphos

    Nicely done.

    Let me sum up the main points:

    1) Claymores cause damage in the direction of their beams
    2) Other people may see the beams extending into a different direction but this is merely a display bug that doesn't affect in which direction they will explode. In other words, don't try to walk past an enemy Claymore thinking you're on the safe side.
    3) People who are further than 30m away when the Claymore is placed will not see any beams.
    4) People on low graphic settings will never see beams.

    I'll add some questions:

    What's the advantage of Claymores? To me this feature (potentially visible beams plus directional explosion) seems more like a disadvantage. How does the Claymore compare to the other two mines?
    What happens if more than two Claymores are placed?
    How much damage does a Claymore actually do?
  4. Edelhonk

    1. Claymore do only damage in an 70degree angle marked by their lasers. You can test this very easily by stand behind or at the side of the Claymore an shot on it till it explodes...you wont get any damage even when you are only 0.5m away from the mine. Do the same when standing inside the lasers and you will be killed.

    2. Claymore are the less effective mine. They are very very easy to spot (in first place from the Lasers but even without the lasers you can see them very clearly because they stand up very high over the ground).
    Do a test...place a VS, a NC and TR AI-mine inside a building on the grey ground and move 10m away. The NC and VS ones are invisible, not so the TR one.
    But not only their visibility makes them less effective. They also are less deadly. They have the same deadly range NC and VS ones have, but they are 360degree and not only ~70. So to cover the same area with your mine you would need ~5mines where NC and VS need only 1.
    Is has a reason why you see a lot kills with NC and VS AI-mines these days but nearly no Claymore kills.
    • Up x 1
  5. Xiphos

    I'll answer this myself:

    I placed a Claymore and respawned as Heavy with Nanoweave 5. It was still there and killed me when I shot it. So it does at least 1125 damage.
  6. 888GRM

    Thats interesting.
    I can remember a number of ocasions on which my VS mines didnt kill a heavy assault walking upon them.
    So do claymores deal more damage? Or perhaps its just that bit of lag getting in the way?
    Can anybody confirm the damages all 3 types of mines deal?
  7. Tyzh

    Well, the directional nature does let you place the claymore close to you while you are doing something. (Like sniping, hacking, or messing with an objective.) The other AP mines would blow you up as well if someone triggered them and you were standing beside them. I've never played with the other mines, so I'm not really in a position to compare. If I'm feeling particularly cheeky sometimes I'll throw my claymore down in front of me when someone is trying to kill me and blow them up with it. I don't know if you can do that with the other faction's mines without killing yourself.

    Generally, the third claymore will cause the first claymore to stop existing. The fourth erases the second. So on.

    I don't know, actually. While we were testing it, my partner was using the flak vest cert to survive the explosions as a medic. I believe he survived a full blast with 3 notches of health left. As soon as I get a hold of him again I can ask what level of flak armor he has and by what percent it reduces damage.
  8. Blackhand

    I get plenty of kills with the claymore, you just have to be smart on how u place them

    My question is: Do you have to cross through the lasers to actually trigger it or does its range extend further than what is visibly represented by the lasers. I normall place mine beside a door but the length of the lasers doesnt reach all the way across the doorframe. Do they still trigger if. The lasers arent physically crossed?
  9. Benevon

    Placed inside of a door or right outside of a spawn room will get em almost every time. Every one I've done that with has gotten kill. Sadly, I didn't stick around to see it happen (sometimes it was a good ten minutes before somebody even tripped it). I am curious as well if they have to cross the actual lasers or not.
  10. Tyzh

    The trigger distance extends further than what is marked by the lasers. It seems to be about twice as far as you might expect (so about twice as far as marked by the lasers), but I've not tried very hard to get an exact distance.
  11. Blackhand

    Thats good enough an estimate for me. Thanks for taking the time to test these Tyzh. Much appreciated.
  12. Tyzh

    It's no problem, Blackhand. Someone has to do this stuff. ;)

    As for the damage, Xiphos, my partner in exploding says he had his Flak armor certed to 3 and it reduced explosive damage by 30%. He survived the blast by 3 bars of health. As I understand it, a bar of health represents 25 health, and infantry can take a total of 1000 damage (500 shield, 500 health) before dying. So he had 75 health left after taking 925 damage.

    I've been out of math class a while, but I think that should mean if "x" is the normal damage value for the claymore, then: .7x=925
    Solving for x returns a value of 1321.428571numbernumbernumber. It's not exactly the nice even number I would expect from a damage value, but if the game calculates damage in smaller intervals than it displays (which I'm sure it does because I've had an empty health bar before) then the damage value could easily be 1320, which reduced by 30% is 924. The 76 health an infantry would have left would be rounded down on the display to 3 bars of health.
  13. Eric Smith

    Claymores still have lots of good uses. One of the more important ones is that you can place them in spots that other mines can't be placed - my favorite is to place them facing the the jump line up to the roof of a Tech Plant. When enemies float up towards the roof to try to get a drop on the engineers that are there they die. Since enemies *MUST* go up the jump line it's virtually a guaranteed kill and reduces the number of friendly deaths on the roof by probably 90% (plus gets me lots of kills while I'm spending most of my time repairing turrets, Burster Maxes, and resupplying ammo). You can also place them inside of doorways where the enemy can't even see them until they've stepped through and the Claymore has gone off - this is good for Generator and Point defense. And, of course, in a busy battle people are dumb and don't look for Claymores anyways.
    • Up x 1
  14. Evilmonky

    Very well made post and gives tons of insight into the claymore.

    Wasn't really sure if I was going to cert into it because of the rep is has, but knowing this I have some ideas on how to make it work.

    I kinda like how our (TR) mine take a little more setup than the NC/VS mines.
    • Up x 3
  15. Ronin Oni

    I don't really mind claymores being less effective and more niche use for being single directional....

    but the green lasers?

    there's just no reason enemy should be able to see those. The bloody thing is already the easiest AP mine to see, no need to make it even more obvious for crying out loud.
    • Up x 4
  16. Takoita

    Btw, mine placing was changed a bit in one latest GU's (the one with warpgate rotation I think?), so claymores are set much more smoothly now.

    Before I've had problems with it facing a random direction sometimes - even to myself, the player who set it! Upon closer observation of other people setting claymores, I've seen that it spawned at the chest height and fell down, sometimes messing up its direction when on uneven surface or even just because.

    Now though I have no problems dropping them from crates and consoles on the floor below; those puppies spawn real nice and tight to the wall with no trouble.
  17. Vokker

    Anything moving between lasers will detonate it. Moving across the lasers will set off and damage the nemy a bit. BUT if they run directly into it, they will HAVE to respawn.

    PERSONALLY... I prefer to have NC or VANU Anti Personel mines, cause.... You look into room... See no mines... Enter room... BOOM!!! Respawn...
  18. Alien51

    Get rid of the lasers and maybe increase the splash range, then I'll be happy.
  19. MGP

    Your wishes were granted!
    • TR Claymores: Reduced inner blast radius by 1.5 meters. Reduced outer blast radius by 1 meter. Increased inner damage by 25 points.

    Oh wait... did you say "increase"?...
  20. BobroWexNC

    are the TR claymores vary directional? i only play as NC and our mines now have glowing lights on them and so far i always have to finish people off who walk over them with a burst from my SMG. directional could be usefull if you could set it at the side of a doorway and then camp behind it meaning if there was two guys coming through bam one down and your ready for the second.

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