Scatmax change Incoming

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Vertabrae, Mar 28, 2013.

  1. Rusky

  2. Aegie

    1) 4+ months out of the ~6 of the game since release with a flinch mechanic that objectively advantaged high ROF over low ROF and therefore TR>VS>NC. TR and VS had this advantage for 4+ months.

    2) Magrider nerf- if we accept this as valid then we have to accept there was an advantage and it was egregious/obvious enough to be the first major faction nerf. VS played with this advantage for ~3 months.

    3) Prolwer nerf- if we accept this as valid then we have to accept there was an advantage and it was egregious/obvious enough to be the second major faction nerf. TR played with this advantage for ~4 months.

    They are taking a balancing pass at the Scatmax in GU6- they fact it has taken this long for them to even take a balance pass is fair evidence that the Scatmax is not as egregiously/obviously OP as either the Mag or Prowler since those were deemed higher priority. Do you have any evidence the NC MAX is more of a cert machine than other MAXs? I would think if you did and it was good evidence that NC MAX is on par with the OPness of the pre-nerf Mag or pre-nerf Prowler then we would probably have seen a nerf already- look at all the crying on the forums.

    I am not sure if I have even stepped foot in a MAX once- since beta- to get an advantage over someone else- can you say the same?

    The Pheonix is broken and lots of people- including myself, other NC and the devs- have agreed it is broken all within 1 week. 1 week.

    People complaining on the forums may be right, maybe NC is OP but I challenge you to find a well reasoned argument supported by valid evidence that attests to that being the case.

    Either way, I stand by my statement- flinch alone was a big handicap primarily affecting NC and was there for 4+ months. Pheonix, 1 week. 4+ months with almost every weapon handicapped (and the more "NC" the weapon- e.g. higher damage lower ROF- the more handicapped it was) compared to 1 week with 1 broken weapon.[slow clap]

    Gee, you're right NC is OP and always has been- what a wondefully written, well thought out response, you have completely changed my mind.
    • Up x 1
  3. TomaHawk

    On Connery, and the lab fights my side was assaulting, RARELY were we unable to eventually enter the lab, if not quickly. No matter the SCATs the NC had. Maybe your fellows just suck at lab assaults?

    This nerfing **** is effing stupid. I didn't see any data or justification for this, just "derrr we're nerfing again..."

    Nerfing does not fix bad people from playing badly. Why is that so hard for SOE to understand? Now, if there was some true justifcation and not just PEOPLE CRYING about shottys, let's talk.
    • Up x 4
  4. phreec

    He's gonna buff them. [IMG]
  5. JonboyX

    I'm happy for the change. You'll be able to focus on phoenix whinging (that is, until that gets another adjustment so it's the best-in-class at taking out mines) and we can go back to being the underdog we were November through January. Meanwhile, those of us half decent with scattercannons (rather than just hacksaws) will still keep killing the silly TR/VS who come flying round the corner on ramboshotgun mode and are surprised to come face to face with a max user who can aim.

    Of course, that means HeavySide(TM) will come back again. Good, if you like vanilla DOOM-style gameplay I guess.

    More seriously, the balance patch should nerf NC AI max, but make VS/TR AI maxes better too. And I'd suggest they do that by reducing gun power for NC, but buffing ARMOUR for all three empires. That way they can be a typical "MMO" tank; still have a good damage out vs. damage in ratio, but be able to crash blockades. THAT'S what the game needs; choke point clearing... rather than solo death machines.

    And also, they should REALLY focus on just how bad twin AV maxes are... seriously; these things are ABYSMAL.
  6. Oreo202

    I so enjoy how everyone is complaining about the likely nerf. Not like TR and VS had their best assets nerfed already or anything.
  7. Xind

    I'm shocked no one has considering lowering the pellet count on an NC AI ARM to 4 from 6. Two together is 8, which still IKs any infantry, but with more accuracy required. The extra pellets that go beyond infantry gibbing are gone and that reduces the damage it does to MAXs pretty significantly, and having 2 4 pellet arms puts them into the same 120% of an LMG sort of place the other two MAXs sit at. Seems simple.
    • Up x 3
  8. Gruntilda

    So they are going to make the scatmax as useless as the VS max before they fix anything

    Sounds about right for SoE
  9. Aegie

    Here's your OP Scatmax
    It averages 852 more points per hour than TR MAX. Compare this with the Prowler that averages 1,087 more points per hour than the Vanguard or the ESF where the Misquito averages only 301 more points per hour than the Reaver or the overall where TR average 423 more points per hour than the NC.

    So NC MAX is less OP compared to TR MAX in terms of scoring points than the Prowler is OP compared to the Vanguard and is only twice as OP as the TR in general are compared to NC.

    Nope, you're right, we have always been OP because we have super powers- apparently one of those powers is to make evidence appear contrary to truth.
    • Up x 3
  10. sham

    Not commenting on anything except this and it's only to say the so called OP Prowler problem didn't actually start until the Prowler's buff vs vehicles and the Magrider nerf. While the Prowler was always good vs infantry nobody really noticed or complained as it was rare to see them in large numbers due to them melting when faced with enemy tanks and the general Magrider spam that meant going anywhere made it certain you would bump into a load of them.

    Actually, I'm not bothered by shotguns or the NC Max. In fact I think it would be a better idea to buff the other two factions until their Max units had an equally fearsome reputation. It is supposed to be a walking, killing machine after all.

    And this won't end the crying for nerfs. It's never ending. The same people will just move on to their next target. A nerver ending nerf cycle until there is nothing left to kill them.
    • Up x 1
  11. nubery

    We all know SOEs balance passes involve huge sweeping untested changes to all parties.
    Allow me to predict what will happen.

    -scattmaxes nerfed to uselessness
    -other maxes buffed massively beyond reason
    -infantry shotguns nerfed into the ground
    -pump actions take 2shots to kill and are worthless
    -new "balanced" pump action released same day that 1shot
    • Up x 1
  12. Rudette

    I see we're all still upholding the PS2 forum's proud tradition; taking good news, and ******** all over it!

    **golf clap**
    • Up x 1
  13. Aegie


    I think a big part of it really does come down to PR problems. The difficulty is that those who cry tend to cry loud and often and this means that people who come to check out the game or browse for opinions stand a good chance to be confronted will all the negativity regardless of whether it is justified or not.

    IMO they should just have someone who is more dedicated to the forums and can just close down all the cry threads that start without a 1) polite introduction to the issue, 2) some valid evidence or at the very least, 3) a valid form or argumentation that 4) actively solicits meaningful feedback.
    • Up x 1
  14. Dumblediner

    So the one good thing the NC had, is getting nerfed.
    Yay I suppose.
  15. Aegie

    A good post and insightful.

    You are probably right about the Prowler in that no one really had any idea how OP it was because the Mag was even more OP and hence tended to keep the Prowler in check.

    It just goes to show that balancing issues in a game like PS2 is complicated and dependent upon a large number of dynamic factors- this is also a good reason to make sure that if people absolutely have to post an OP/UP or nerf/buff thread that they take the time to consider these complications and present a rational, thoughtful, evidence based argument that actively solicits meaningful responses.
  16. Drippyskippy

    Yes, SoE is surely but slowly learning what the term "balanced" means. Assuming they nerf the NC max and shotguns this is going to be a fresh change to indoor fight. It will hopefully bring back some of the skill that indoor fighting has lost. Balanced gameplay and a worthwhile meta game to fight for and this game will be great!
  17. Zakuak


    I don't dance to often in CQB but there is a lot of shot gun action going on once you get in/around a base of any type. I do not mind them so much, I mean the guy gets the jump on you and you're smoked, move on.

    On the flip side I enjoy the exchange of fire from opposing groups, fire form cover, shoot and maneuver , I do not enjoy one shot snuff runs. Shotty's are good and so of course a lot of players will pick one up and use it, too good? I dunno that's not my place to say IMO.

    ScatMax, Lame for the NC max. I mean it's got two shotguns bolted to it, sh*ts gonna hurt. Pretty sure they'll reduce damage but I hope they alter damage fall off range out further.
  18. Zaik

    I knew it!

    I am so glad I put extended magazines on my bursters rather than my hacksaws, they'll surely get nerfed into uselessness. Hopefully they will increase the NC MAX movement speed to the TR/VS MAX level afterwards so I won't be at a disadvantage when using flamethrowers.
  19. TomaHawk

    The whining about this game is horrible. I've been playing games online since the days of and the original Command and Conquer when I was ECSTATIC to have ONE attempt in 10 start an actual game, when Internet gaming was still pooping in its diapers. I've seen a lot of whining, and I've seen games literally ruined because devs bow to the crybabies. It's now happening in this game, a good game, and good games don't come along often for me. At its core, PS2 has potential, but this **** SOE is pulling amounts to nothing more than helping the people who genuinely suck at this game get better through code changes?! It won't work. This game is gradually becoming a watered down POS, where they struggle to get people to simultaneously open their wallets and quiet down from the incessant crying. This is the kind of **** I've been reading from the whining crybabies:

    1. "pumps don't act like pumps, they're too fast"
    2. "OHK, omg, nerf this"
    3. "I am NOT that good at this game, shotguns have to be nerfed" <-- yes, this one is real

    And I don't hear plausible justification, just WHINING. No one talks about the design of caps, which are the single minded focus of every fight. Do you really care what base you're going after? Does it really matter in this game? You wait for the cap, and the ching XP, then you move on. Caps are all in tight quarters, herding people into fighting as infantry. Every other thing you can bring, be it a tank or aircraft is support only. It takes infantry to seize the cap, with people lounging around it until it flips. And somehow, we're to believe that it's the shotgun's fault? WHAT THE ****? Design caps to take place a different way, not in close spaces, in alternative methods for flipping bases and objectives, and you will change the argument of what's OP.

    Stop blaming the ****ing weapon because people choose the most effective tool. Look instead to how objectives are flipped and don't make them all the same copy/paste flip job and you will see people not gravitating to one weapon or another out of perceived (and BS) OP-ness.

    There is no shortage of people who suck at this game. And that's ok. But nerfing only serves to piss off the player base while not fixing, AT ALL, how much the people who suck FROM SUCKING ANY LESS.

    **** you all!
    • Up x 1
  20. Jakko

    Keep in mind they just "balanced" the Phoenix by buffing it.