SAW/Orion/CARV Logical Comparison.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by PyroPaul, Apr 28, 2013.

  1. Littleman

    First, you don't compensate left and right alternating recoil patterns, because the weapon will fire any number of rounds in one direction then suddenly switch direction for any number of rounds. It gets worse with higher RPMs and greater recoil values.

    Second, a lot of the misconceptions are born from not fully understanding the power of attachments, and distances people REALLY engage others over. Screw what the database and the in game tool tips provide, I'm convinced fore grips have a positive effect on vertical AND horizontal recoil. Also, even the SAW would be hard pressed to kill a target at 100m before they react to the incoming fire. Weapons were balanced around 60-80m engagement distances back in early beta, and while still dummy targets are a poor test subject, the Carv and a fore-grip are accurate enough up to 80m. It's a night and day difference over bare barrel firing through a 3.4x scope.

    At this point, I'd say the Carv could stand to have a 2x reflex, compensator, and maybe an advanced laser with no further adjustments, but the latter two are based on hypothesized values regarding grips, lasers, and the compensator, so I won't say them here just yet. I know how the rumor mill works, and the people on these forums argue with their head more so than with their brain.

    And really, I'll be the first to own up to a simple fact: vertical recoil is a subtle <=> horizontal element if you don't pull back in a perfectly straight line.
  2. CupBoy

    You can't just throw around numbers without backing them up. Are you just pulling "90%" out of thin air? And what evidence do you have that "guns of type X get higher score/hr"?

    True, they don't. With the given sample size, it's reasonable to assume that roughly the same variety of attachments have been used.

    For most common weapons the scores are really close - so close that I think we would all agree that they are pretty balanced (as they should be, given that they are identical).

    Again, I think they're all within 5% or so of each other. What are you trying to prove with that?

    The default LMGs perform evenly for all BRs, not just noobs.

    Wait...what? What the heck are you even talking about now?
  3. HadesR

    I honestly couldn't comment on that .. Just from my testing the weapon the other day for a good few hours the recoil was predictable at going towards the upper right or the 2nd hour on a clock face if that's more clear. But as I have said in other posts that might be because I normally only run with Iron sights, so I don't get the recoil exaggeration that comes with a scope.
  4. Fenrisk

    If you don't think most infantry combat takes place at CQ then i have to say your either a low BR player or you don't even play Planetside 2. For anyone who pays attention in game they know that most of the combat is in or around buildings where your range is 30m or less. As soon as you enter a base it becomes shotgunside 2. The in game reality of where combat takes proves the NC wrong in this thread. The gun stats prove them wrong. The reality that starter weapons have a lower score if they are not CQ friendly due to BR1 noobs using them proves them wrong in their own player statistics.

    Let's not argue with reality though? Or gun stats? or anything factual. Let's make a bunch of assumption's about player stats that boost our own argument because the gun stats themselves can't be argued with and prove us wrong.

    In any other game players would be using weapon stats as the main indicater of what weapons to use in each situation but here NC players throw them out the window when its convenient for them to argue on the forums.

    If you think gun stats and attachments are not how most players pick their weapons in game then your deluded. If you think gun stats and attachments are not the main indicater of a weapons strength then you are deluded.
  5. Jablon

    You can compensate for horizontal recoil, just not to a degree you can compensate for vertical one. But it still can be done well enough that CoF will have greater impact on your accuracy than recoil.
  6. Bill Hicks

    Finally some reason. The guass saw is great when you can stand on a hill and never move while shooting at people who dont fire back when you have to deal with the long reload.
  7. Littleman

    Naw, you pull slightly to the right when pulling back to compensate for the vertical, that's what that means. The weapon really does just pull in either direction at random, but yes, through an iron sight, the horizontal is much less apparent than the vertical because it technically evens itself out, it's just an artificial CoF that doesn't bloom on top of a CoF that does, so it screws with long distance fighting when bursting primarily. A fore-grip tightens that technical artificial CoF. In my experience, I swear that means vertical too, despite the description.

    I'm now of the belief all weapons are balanced with attachments being equipped. A base weapon is always crummier than the modded version, so why balance base weapon against base weapon? This might explain why SOE allotted the attachments they did to all weapons, even the one's with weird options.

    An actual scope. A target at least 60m away and even then, that's the cusp of when it starts to get problematic. 80m is when a fore-grip really starts to shine for the Carv, and it shines brilliantly. But through a scope. Through a 1x, we're really just dumb firing rounds and letting the RNG god sort out the placement, especially with that outrageously obscuring muzzle flash all TR weapons have. This game needs a seizure warning listed somewhere.

    Horizontal recoil is nothing anyone should have much trouble with up to 50m, especially through a 1x sight. God people, if you're going to test or "show" something as proof, do it right and in context to the argument being made.
  8. Bill Hicks

    I bet you TMG 50 has better reload better rate of fire better hip fire than the gauss saw.

    "most versitile with its large assortment of attachments" This statement always tells me the person has no idea what they are talking about. YOU HAVE TO GET THOSE ATTACHMENTS TO EVEN USE THE GUASS SAW. Versatile for WHAT? close range combat? YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE ADVANCED grip. we have to spend nearly 300 certs to make our default lmg useful while you can use the stock carv and do well. The gauss saw is ONLY for long range. I cannot turn it into a CQC weapon

    You can track targets get a more stable burst when moving can hip fire much better than anyone with a gauss saw.
  9. Bill Hicks

    No I think you are not in reality. I have been playing shooters longer than most of the stat ragers and I have seen countlerss arguments over weapons and only bads who only look at stats are ignored. Even in on the Call of Duty forums no one just argues stats. Everyone talks about real world situations not " durr the COF is greater than .24 durrr "

    Shotgun side? Sounds someone who doesnt know how to kill people who are using a shotgun. Protip long range kills means nothing. If I kill 5 people at long range then they can be rez'd safely. In CQC they cannot rez'd and could cost the team a whole cap.

    You might want to play the game more than you crunch your stats. The fact that you dont account for synergy or have any idea of real world play indicates that you need to.
  10. Ganelon

    That SPH doesn't prove squat. There's bigger differences between common pool weapons than faction specific gear.
  11. MurderBunneh

    You are embarrassing yourself. You talk about reality then say we should judge the weapons on the paper stats instead of the stats that are culled from the servers and show how they perform in game.

    Please start making some kind of sense with your posts.
  12. MurderBunneh

    It certainly proves that if it is performing well or not doesn't it? If the point of the game at the moment is to score xp then the guns are fine are they not?
  13. Devrailis

    This has been very educational, I need to start taking notes.

    Next time my favourite (Assoc)football/hockey/basketball/synchronized swimming team is ahead in points, I need to remember, points don't matter, only player height, age and weight.

    My god, how could I have been blind to reality for so long? :rolleyes:
    • Up x 1
  14. MurderBunneh

    Notice how TR do not whine about their ESF. Notice that TR do not whine about MBT. Notice that TR do not whine about Assault rifles. Notice that TR don not whine about Carbines.

    TR have the best or arguably the best in 90% of classes and weapons but still cry UP.

    Really really pathetic.
  15. Ganelon

    You have to consider that the Carv's SPH is very close to the SAW's, yes. But then you have to consider the XP bonus most TR get for being underpopulated on most servers and the lack of XP bonus for NC who are overpopulated on most servers.

    It is not a reliable statistic and should not be used as a balancing metric, simple as.

    Scythe is the better ESF according to your beloved SPH, Vanguard is better at killing vehicles.
  16. PyroPaul

    If you think that 90% of infantry combat happens in close quarters then you're delusional.

    Crown... Crossroads... Ti Alloys... stronghold... Crux Mining... Jaegers Crossing... you're not fighting at 20 meter ranges... you're slugging off at 30-40 meters.

    Tech Plants... Amp Stations... Generally one side is holed up in Central building shooting out against the surrounding smaller structures... 30-50 meters away.

    In Bio-labs, sure you'll probably run into 5-15 meter engagement ranges...
    and i'm sorry, Bio-Labs don't constitute 90% of infantry combat.

    Also... Shotgunside at 30m?
    HA! Hahaha! oh thats good. at 30 meters it takes 3-5 shots my Claw or Sweeper to put some one down. At that range if i stop and shoot, i'm a corpse.

    I'm glad you can admit this... because the assumption that a majority of the below BR30 NC players are sporting the 1000 cert/700 SC NS weapons is just kinda absurd.

    in any other game a majority of the weapons are largely interchangeable with little more then a skin or texture difference between them. further more, many of the weapons in those 'other' games are largely personal preference. and lastly, those 'other' games are not 'this' game...
  17. Fenrisk

    I have a Auxium with the Uppercut. I know shotguns and how to deal with shotgun users and it rarely involves bringing a LMG into CQC. That's a REALITY of planetside 2 that most of the NC in thread thread choose to ignore and if you had bothered to read my post instead of looking for a way to try criticise my in game play style you might have picked up on that.

    CQC i bring my extended mag Uppercut
    20m-60m i bring my TMG-50 with forgrip and compensator (no access to advanced foregrip despite the TMG-50 being considered the best long range LMG that TR can use)
    60m+ i bring what?

    That's the reality of a TR heavy.

    If i was NC i would have the option of the SAW and i would only need to dump 200 certs into it to make it better at range then the TMG-50. You want to talk in game realitys? How about that all factions agree the SAW is a great LMG and one of the best in the game while no one says a word about TR LMG's? Explain that one?

    Go discuss it with high BR players and they will tell you what the best LMG's are and they certainly are not on TR side. Lets ignore them reality's and concentrate on highly subjective player stats that are faction/player dependant while being influenced by where the in game combat takes place,(CQ) where the 4th faction flocks too, (NC) and how low BR 4th faction players can bring the score down of default weapons (saw).
  18. Vertabrae

    SPH/SPM is not a good yardstick to measure by. Why? Because it's not accurate. Let me explain.

    SPH/SPM is the score per hour/minute. It's the average number of points you score in an hour/minute. Yes I know many or most of you know that, be patient.

    Now the reason I say SPH/SPM isn't accurate is simple. On an average day, I log in, play around with my setups, browse the daily deals, go putz around in VR, run outside and smoke, chill in WG and bs with a friend. All of which lowers my SPH/SPM. Anything you do while not in actual combat, you're lowering your SPH/SPM. Running to that next base lowers your SPM more than driving a Flash to it does, simply because you're out of combat longer. Outfit leader orders everyone back to WG to load up Gals, your SPM is going down. Gotta stop and use the bathroom? Down goes the SPM.

    Some people log in, immediately redeploy to a hotspot, fight for 10 mins and log out. They will have a higher SPM, than the guy who played for 2 hours, but took 3 bathroom breaks, and ate a plate full of cookies while chilling in WG. SPM is huge in CoD because it's a 10 min match and you're in combat the entire time. Here you aren't. Two people can log in, both spend 2 hours in game, yet have vastly different SPH/SPM simply because one was on the phone and afk for 20 mins. Doesn't make him a worse player.
  19. MurderBunneh

    So as long as the stats are in your favor they work fine? And as far as SPH not being good enough then we can go to K/DPH and the story will be the same.
  20. MurderBunneh

    Yes but we aren't looking at stats culled from 2 players now are we?