Rocket rifle on PTS

Discussion in 'Light Assault' started by McMan, May 8, 2016.

  1. Iridar51

    Just because it does damage doesn't mean it does DAMAGE damage. Titan 150 AP is very different from Basilisk shot, wouldn't you agree?
    Maybe, but who said LAs will be better deterrence than heavies? You predict worst possible scenario for yourself, one that will obviously will never come.
    • Up x 1
  2. Halkesh

    In all case, since it take the LA's empty tool slot, it's a welcome weapon.
    To me, it's a free grenade launcher that is also able to damage heavy armor. (as the UBGL : it can, but nothing more)

    It's a niche weapon that add some versatility to the LA.
  3. LaughingDead

    Ever fight a sundi ball and know what their primary weapon is? You only need to have 4+ sunderers at that to deal some ridiculous gibbing damage. And if thats the comparison you're willing to make then I'm going to count my days left of playing with the tanks.
  4. Iridar51

    So 12 players (4 drivers, 8 gunners). Coordinated. I'd say there's something wrong with the game if that would deal "some ridiculous gibbing damage" to one vehicle.

    Everything is OP when used en masse. 12 tanks focusing one target would deliver much more gibbing serious damage, somehow that slips by you.
  5. LaughingDead

    8 players, with flanking and vehicle avoiding power, with free vehicle harrassment tools that can be used against infantry.
    Giving lights a mini launcher does not sound good on paper at all, if anything I'd like to see on impact mini grenades for sofening a room or a flashbang salvo or something. Lights shouldn't influence the vehicle game more than they do now.
  6. Iridar51

    Organization is rewarding, regardless of playstyle or items. As it should be.
    Why not? Game should be engaging and have many different facets to it.

    If each class would be perfectly viable at only one task, it would be incredibly boring and lead to rock-paper-scissors balance.
  7. Pat22

    Ok Iridar, it's my turn to complain about the Rocklet now.
    A new patch hit PTS today (?) and with it came new ammo types for the Rocklet, as well as the removal of the HEAT/Smoke and Slug/Smoke ammo types.

    I'm going to start this rant by saying that I am very biased, because I was imagining myself being able to carry 4 flash grenades, 10 smoke grenades, medkits and even have a bit of anti-vehicle damage on the side and I was very happy with all the utility I was going to have at my disposal.
    So my first complaint is the removal of the Smoke ammo.
    I can only speculate on why it was removed. Most probably reason is that the Devs did not want every fight shrouded in smoke almost permanently, but for that they could have simply increased the ammunition cost of the Rocklet smoke rounds.
    If they feared that the Rocklet smoke rounds would make the handheld smoke grenades obsolete, they forgot the part where the underbarrel launchers make smoke grenades obsolete already. In fact, currently, there's almost no reason to ever carry the handheld smoke grenades. You're better off with Flash or Frags.

    Now, my next complaint is actually towards the new types of ammo.
    First, I'm concerned about their inclination towards AP damage, and the amount of AP damage that they do. The LA did not need what basically amounts to its own rocket launcher, and the current ES AP rounds seem to be far too powerful.
    Not only that but also, even though it's obviously in an incomplete state, they also seem quite unbalanced. As a VS main, I'd be quite disappointed if the TR and NC once again got some flat-out upfront dakka type weapon while the VS go something inferior because "it's shiny", and right now that's what it looks like what it's going to be. The TR CRAG rounds, with a very NC-like trait, seem to just be a very powerful rocket shotgun, with massive alpha damage and higher DPS.
    The NC rounds, while less damaging, are wire-guided. So basically, every NC LA is carrying a mini-Raven.
    The VS rounds seem to neither have the alpha damage or DPS as the TR ones without gaining anything in return except that they do purple lights and stuff.

    I've also got a complaint with the Flash rounds, tied in with the removal of Smoke rounds. Not only do I think that giving all LAs access to Flash rounds is a far worse and more annoying idea than Smoke rounds, but unlike smoke rounds, there's also not much reason to use them over the handheld Flash grenades. The devs clearly understand that Flash grenades need to be used very rapidly and you need to be able to react to them going off rapidly as well. Switching to your Rocklet to fire a Flash and switching back to your weapon is far less efficient than simply throwing a Flash grenade from your hand.
    So it's the inverse of the Smoke grenade/round problem. The Flash grenade is simply better and having Flash rounds is not only redundant, but will also most likely annoy the crap out of everyone else being Flashed every other minute.

    TL: DR
    - AP rounds are bad. More utilitarian / HEAT rounds are better. LA needs a TOOL, not more AV weaponry.
    - Flash rounds are bad, bring back Smoke rounds.
    - Buff Handfeld Smoke grenades while you're at it.
  8. _itg

    My guess is that they were worried about performance issues. If smoke is free and in the tool slot, you have to expect it will be everywhere, and people whose computer can't handle it will either turn off smoke in the ini file (if that still works), which defeats the purpose, or the game would be unplayable for them, which is not acceptable, either. There's also the issue that if smoke is too widespread, everyone will just equip HSNV scopes by default, and smoke will be useless again.

    Yeah, the current iteration is really unbalanced, but keep in mind it's still just an iteration. I don't know what the intended power level is, but my initial impression from some VR testing is that right now, the VS one is clearly worst, followed by stock AP ammo, then NC's mini-Ravens are next by a wide margin, and TR's CRAG ammo is better still by a wide margin. I'm not sure which one of those for hits the "ideal" power level. Any new tool is a direct buff to the class, but too much AV power will doubtless provoke an angry response from vehicle mains and probably result in redoubled efforts to get c4 neutered. Who knows whether the end result would be acceptable, but there's something to be said for maintaining the status quo.

    I think the idea is to make them more of a squad support tool than anything else. It would be pretty cheesy if you could easily kill anyone by launching free, unlimited flash grenades at them, then rapidly swapping to your primary. The slow weapon swap time would also give you a reason to use actual grenades, rather than the zero-nanite rocklet version.
  9. Pat22

    That's exactly what I'm saying though. I run Flash grenade bando as my primary loadout and I love it. I see almost no purpose for the Flash rounds other than to blind some distant enemies to somewhat support my allies without wasting my much more valuable Flash grenades.

    Smoke rounds would be much better for squad support, as much as I understand the performance limitation.
    Distant vehicles? Smoke.
    Distant snipers? Smoke.
    Distant player base? Smoke.
    Gotta run across an open field covered by enemy guns? Smoke.

    Not that we can't already do this with the underslung launcher, but carrying that around means you have to have an inferior weapon with you, or waste your grenade and also potentially suit slot.
  10. Iridar51

    Answered your own question. I never was too hot for smoke myself. I made a suggestion that smoke needs an overhaul if it's going to be the main LA utility, as it looked at the time.

    But smoke in its current form is largely useless and equally annoying to all parties involved, so I'm only happy to see it removed.

    Damage numbers are likely to be adjusted before release.

    VS thing is obviously incomplete, not even sure what it's supposed to do yet. See no issue behind TR / NC concepts.

    As far I understand, rocklet Flashes are supposed to be weaker than handheld version, and we're not expected to switch to Rocklet, flash something, and switch back to primary. Think of it more as ranged support.

    So if you're breaching a room yourself, you use a handheld flash. If you're sitting on a tree and your allies breach a room, you can support them by flashing enemies from a distance.

    Not sure why would you call me out specifically, my own perspective to this issue is kind of fatalistic - we can squirm all we want, but in the end they'll do whatever they want, and there's not much we can do about it.

    But I have to say I like the current version of the Rocklet much more than the previous one.
    • Up x 1
  11. Pat22

    Mostly because 1- I respect your opinion and 2- I railed on you for your earlier complaints so I figured it'd be fair play that you return the favor
  12. LaughingDead

    I do like that the rocklet rifle gives some depth to light assault, however still feel that lights shouldn't be able to swarm vehicles from above and win.
  13. Moz

    Wow.... that's kinda disappointing!

    They need to at least make this weapon worth using.... 30 shots to the REAR of a lightening? That's insane unless its got the fire rate of a GD7F?
  14. Iridar51

    That post is outdated, they put a new version of rocklet on PTS. It has empire specific ammo options, and damage and accuracy were buffed. It still takes 24 AP shots to the rear of MBT, but empire specific ammo seems to be more powerful. They also swapped smoke for flash.
  15. Moz

    Well, that's good!

    What is the fire rate / how long would it take to get those 24 shots off?

    I presume its much like any of the other AA type weapons, you need to group up and focus fire to really achieve anything?
  16. Iridar51

    Standard AP rounds have about the same spread / fire rate / reload time as the Striker. So ~3 shots per second and ~3 second reload.

    But a bit lower projectile speed and huge drop.

    Overall, it's unrealistic to dump a mag after mag in the rear armor of a moving MBT, and LAs can't expect to solo a full health MBT or Lightning with just the Rocklet. It's more like a harass / finisher weapon. That's talking about AP rounds.

    TR ES ammo is a shotgun-like burst of highly spread small rockets, it instantly dumps the whole magazine, and kills an MBT into rear armor in 3 magazines plus a sneeze.

    I wouldn't expect the damage to stay the same, though. I don't think AP damage will go any higher than it is, but ES versions will be probably tuned down.
    • Up x 1
  17. FirePhox

    Just a heads up, Flak rounds are now working on PTS; with a maximum range of 120m and a very fast travel time, the flak rocklets can kill a esf in ~2-1/2 magazines which means LA will be the bane of the lolpodders existence.
  18. Daigons

    I finally got a chance to give this weapon a try. I was shocked with the addition of this weapon with my C4 Fiend loadout, I can take down Shielded Sundys that are deployed. Of course it takes more time to solo down one so there are plenty of time for opponents to spawn and/or respond to the attack. I still think that even when the Sundy is at 10% life, it would probably only take 1 Engineer to probably out heal.
  19. Daigons

    It also looks like if the ESF is close, you can wreck them with 4 shots with the Starfall ammo.
  20. Beerbeerbeer

    About time LA got a tool. They should have just put in a non-lethal grenade launcher IMO, as it would have been more inline with the spirit of the class, but this, anything (even a crowbar) will do.

    I'm not one to try PTS, but when is this being patched in?

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